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Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/13/2013 11:18:38 PM

SimplyMichael

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People make this big deal about SSC vs. RACK as if there is some concrete definition of what you can do in one you cant do in another.

In a dungeon or a play party you cant watch people play and tell who is who.

And most people here would have passed out if they watched the intensity of play the gay men who coined ssc played at.

Its a silly non existant divide.

Post #: 1

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/13/2013 11:25:35 PM

tazzygirl

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I think of it in these terms.

Spanking is a pretty basic activity. But it has its extremes and its complications.

To me, SSC falls into the beginners category. Be careful, be consensual, be calm and serene.

As someone wants to test their limits, maybe instead of a hand, moving into a paddle, then research. Ask questions, talk about it more. Now, there is no longer a need for SSC, its moved more into the RACK zone.

I consider all this just plain common sense, but thats how I explain it to others when they ask.

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RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 12:12:59 AM

SeekingTrinity

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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

I personally just object to the words "safe" and "sane" because I feel they are very subjective terms. Whos standards decide what is safe? Who gets to decide what is sane versus whats insane?

I personally have a preference for RACK because it just makes the most logical sense and pretty much keeps in line with the way I think about things in general...not just kink. I've always been the type to know risks versus rewards, do what I can through education and experience to minimize risks, but ultimately recognizing that I cannot eliminate them all. It just fits me better.

Will someone look at me at a public event and see that? Probably not. But if you pay attention to me, you might notice that I handle my flogger in a way so as not to wrap around someone or that I've studied where its okay to hit/not hit someone. I choose not to apply electrical stimulation in general, but if I did...I especially wouldn't apply it to someone's chest area because education has made me aware that you could screw up someone's heart rhythm and potentially send them into cardiac arrest if something goes wrong. So it's a risk I personally choose not to take.

In the grand scheme of things it might not mean much one way or the other if Im SSC or RACK. It could be a silly divide, but I guess I feel that to each their own. I feel RACK just fits me personally better, but more power to you for sure if SSC is where you are at. no harm, no foul in either case.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 6/14/2013 12:14:23 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 3

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 12:14:47 AM

tazzygirl

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Not everyone plays in public.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 4

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 12:16:59 AM

SeekingTrinity

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Never implied that everyone does, if that was directed at me and not a FR. Just part of the example that Michael used in his OP, so I went with that.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 5

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 12:32:47 AM

LadyPact

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Nobody else has to adopt My terms as their own. Just like I have definitions that work for Me in other areas, I feel the same way about RACK.

Being the literal sort of person that I am, I don't think "safe" necessarily applies when it comes to edge play. I think 'safeR' might have been a more appropriate choice. When's the last time you walked up to somebody who was doing fire play and they told you, "oh yeah, it's totally safe". If they did, I'd probably suggest that they were full of shit. They can do a lot of things to reduce the risk, but it's never entirely safe.

The other part that I don't particularly care for about SSC is that it lacks any commitment about education. It gives Me the vibe that folks substitute trust instead. As long as an activity is sane, it's all good, right? I'm not terribly comfortable with that mindset. I think that is what leads to some things going wrong when they really don't have to. I'd prefer to attempt to stay away from that.

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 6

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 12:33:59 AM

BambiBoi

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SSC: Safe, Sane, Consensual
RACK: Risk-Aware Consensual Kink

Remove the common denominator of "consent" and the implied "kink" and you are left with "safe and sane" (both judgment calls compared to the whims of society. I would like to call this the "objective" approach even though the scientist in me is screaming no.) vs. "risk-aware" (a more subjective approach requiring informed consent between two parties. I would like to call this the subjective approach) This you already knew...

Does the difference mean anything is another way of asking "do people honor the difference?" I submit that they do when they are new. New players tend to be SSC because they temper new, weird, dark urges with what seems safe. I assume with no proof that people come to BDSM through lighter forms of play, developing as they go. If that's the case, it seems natural they would be asking themselves "Did that hurt? That looked like it hurt. Was that weird for you? What do you think about this new toy? I saw a video of this, it looked pretty fun." Internal or external dialogue, doesn't really matter.

The point is that those questions are society-normative. The mindset starts out judging BDSM from the societal view looking in. As one gets comfortable and confident (for some this is quick, for a rare liberated few: instant) the introspective of what it is we do changes perspective. Now we think about our desires looking out. It is then we abandon worrying about "safe and sane" and instead recognize the risk and rewards, and make informed decisions that are right for us rather than what is safe, sane, and right for the general public.

ETA: General edits. Queen reference +1 point. Also, I think this view is consistent with Lady Pact's preference for education. After all, the circle is now complete. When I was SSC I was but the learner, now I am the master.

< Message edited by BambiBoi -- 6/14/2013 12:42:13 AM >

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RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 1:24:57 AM

Itsthetruth

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This should be interesting to see where this thread winds up.Let the witch trials begin.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 8

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:28:23 AM

MasterCaneman

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I'm gonna plagiarize myself and use a quote I put in another thread. I don't do anything that can come back and haunt me later, or anything that I wouldn't want done to me that would cause me regrets the next morning, or something to that effect. That goes for everything from not using protection to wielding a barbed-wire whip (interesting story behind that one).

Common sense. Let big brain take the lead over little brain, and not let the moment make you lose focus on the fact that we (as a whole) practice a dangerous form of social behavior. Done correctly, both (or more) parties are mutually satisfied and eager for more. Done incorrectly and the repercussions can be disastrous. This may be an oversimplification, but it's a way I learned early enough so I'm not paying the consequences years later.

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Post #: 9

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:41:06 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
People make this big deal about SSC vs. RACK as if there is some concrete definition of what you can do in one you cant do in another.

In a dungeon or a play party you cant watch people play and tell who is who.

And most people here would have passed out if they watched the intensity of play the gay men who coined ssc played at.

Its a silly non existant divide.

It's a valid point that "safe" is somewhat subjective. I've seen some around here advocate for being so safe that I'm not sure they'd be able to have sex under SSC.

That said I think there's an important distinction. Take the "dropping a bondage person thread" that we were just in. Everybody involved admits that the shibari they're talking about is dangerous. No one is claiming that it's safe i.e. SSC. Heck Guilty was just talking about how he could be safer but he wouldn't enjoy that aesthetic as much. If we were all on the SSC page (that kink should be safe) his crowd wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But with RACK he just says "informed consent" and goes right on using practices which everyone acknowledges are dangerous.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:47:21 AM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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So you are saying that the difference in one mantra vs the other is just Petty Incremental Nuances & Doesn't Indicate Cautious Kink (PINDICK)? It don't amount to a hill of beans between them? Nothing beats common sense, an educated bottom and a trained Top with mad skills? So RACK is just a watered down version of SSC and both are wrong because the whole concept is an insult to our intelligence and smells like a cheap marketing ploy . . . like trying to sell a bag of sharp needles as safer than a bag of broken glass?

Preaching to the choir bro.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 6/14/2013 6:58:29 AM >

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RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:51:55 AM

katts3

Posts: 44
Joined: 4/30/2013
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RACK,Those that come to me are experienced edge players, so they are aware of the possible conquences..Bounty

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Post #: 12

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:56:38 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As someone wants to test their limits, maybe instead of a hand, moving into a paddle, then research. Ask questions, talk about it more. Now, there is no longer a need for SSC, its moved more into the RACK zone.

I consider all this just plain common sense, but thats how I explain it to others when they ask.

Paddling isn't SSC? Wow, never heard that one before. Considering the guy who coined the phrase was,a hard core gay leatherman, pretty sure anal fisting, golden showers, felching, drugs, and hard core beatings were common activities...

As for public play, that point sailed over your head. If you cant LOOK at what someone is diung at tell if it is SSC or RACK...then there is no serious difference between the two.

Modern heterosexual bdsm is pretty tame, its not like new forms of olay have been invented in the lsst ten or twenty years.

I prefer RACK to SSC but the way people act like there is some gulf between what each covers is not born out by reality.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 13

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:57:48 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

hmm... what can we do with broken glass? That sounds like it could be fun

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Post #: 14

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 6:57:58 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So you are saying that the difference in one mantra vs the other is just Petty Incremental Nuances & Don't Indicate Cautious Kink (PINDICK)? It don't amount to a hill of beans between them? Nothing beats common sense, an educated bottom and a trained Top with mad skills? So RACK is just a watered down version of SSC and both are wrong because the whole concept is an insult to our intelligence and smells like a cheap marketing ploy . . . like trying to sell a bag of sharp needles as safer than a bag of broken glass?

Preaching to the choir bro.

RD, seem like a small choir so far, lol!

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 15

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 7:15:16 AM

tsatske

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From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

Oh, no, Michael, I agree with you, fro my understanding of the post. I take it that you are not arguing against safe play, or safer play, however it works for the individual whose doing it, so much as against using the terms as artificial dividers. Look how many people said 'SSC is for beginners'. It was even suggested that a bare handed spanking was SSC, a paddling was RACK. What exactly can go wrong in a paddling? I know something can go wrong with crossing the street or taking a drink of lemonade, there are no safe behaviors, but if we insist on quantifying them, a paddling seems pretty safe to me. Makes me wonder what would be thought of my kind of impact play. (I'm also wondering about the barbed wire... story please?)

With my last Dom, we were members of our munch, attending monthly, for about 6 months or so before we attended a party. The way we played shocked people. The women came up to me and gifted me with a string flogger (seriously. someone in the group made them. every other women in the group loved them. I hated it. actually safeworded on it). The men converged on my Master to have a little talk about warm up and such (I hate warm-up. always have. My idea of how to play is to start hard and build from there. does that count as warm up?) But they got used to us, over time. Before they got used to us, though, I don't know that we 'seemed' RACK to them, I think we just seemed 'unsafe'.

I understand the RACK mentality - minimize risk and agree to what risk you decide to accept. But I don't understand using it the way you are speaking of, to separate ourselves, in a very judgmental way. between 'lite players' and 'heavy players', 'newbies' and 'old timers', etc. It's like using 'sub' and 'slave' to divide and conquer the group of us. words are just words. People use the words that resonate with them, it doesn't really mean much about what they will or won't, do or don't do. Just mean those words work for them. Doesn't make them better than someone who likes the alternative words better.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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Post #: 16

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 7:39:42 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
RD, seem like a small choir so far, lol!

Sign me up. I'm not particularly interested in the slogan wars myself. Here's my slogan.

Don't be an idiot.

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officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 11:23:54 AM

Dyfrynt

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It really is an exercise in futility (There's that word again!) to attempt to pin down definitions here. It is my thought that most BDSM activity has the potential to be SSC and RACK, rather than SSC or RACK. The former acronym is where I would hope most people would want to be. The latter is the understanding of the participants that a positive situation can go negative really fast, and often without warning.

And this is true of any level of play, though obviously it grows exponentially stronger the more one moves into edge play types of activities.

So how 'bout the concept that SSC and RACK are two sides of the same coin.

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RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 11:28:47 AM

ResidentSadist

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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Fuck SSC & Rack . . . gimmie DBDB (Dangerous But Desirable Behavior)

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-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Post #: 19

RE: Silly SSC vs RACK - 6/14/2013 11:44:27 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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I really don't think of it being silly a non existent divide per se.
I totally agree it's rather subjective and depends upon a number
of factors.

I have focused on externalizing these things with who I'm involved
with. Thought of it in terms of their safety, sanity within the scope
of consent.

At the moment, I'm rethinking things from an internalized perspective.

A lot of this stuff is shaped through experiences or even a lack of.
Some people don't realize what's involved in actually acting out
some of their Hot Fantasies and kinks. End up with regret or some
awful hard lessons at the end of the day. However, some end up
with some Amazing Experiences without any regrets at all.

All subjective.

There's a few things as of late, which I'll never do again. It's
reshaped my own views a little. This is in regards to Risk, what's
safe and sane for myself and who I'm involved with. Along with
certain types of situations to avoid.

As Dyfrynt mentioned in his post here..

"The latter is the understanding of the participants that a positive situation can go negative really fast, and often without warning.
And this is true of any level of play, though obviously it grows exponentially stronger the more one moves into edge play types of activities."

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Post #: 20

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