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RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/16/2013 8:57:44 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

The ACA is for the uninsured, I have great insurance and will not be participating, nor will anyone else who has good coverage either from an employer or as an individual.


Other than out premium's skyrocketing you mean.



Premiums were skyrocketing before the ACA.





Please! Not like they are now!

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/16/2013 9:59:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Please, like they have always. Double digit increases have been in the "plans" for years. Doesnt mean they get them where its not allowed by law. In some states, insurance commissions arent allowed to lower the rate increases asked for by insurance companies. In some states they are.

Health insurance premiums also are tied to the rising costs of medical care, although growth in those costs has slowed in recent years. Health insurance rate hikes aren't a new phenomenon. From 2005 to 2012, the average increase in premiums for policies sold via online vendor eHealth Inc. rose 32 percent for individuals and 27 percent for family coverage, the company reported in November.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/25/health-insurance-premium_n_3155007.html

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RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 12:33:52 AM   
erieangel


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Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

Please! Not like they are now!



I can't really comment on that because while the agency where I work has seen a rate hike in premiums every year for the past 5 in which I've worked there, they've managed not to past those rate hikes on to the employees.


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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 4:58:58 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Whilst the 'Bridges to Health' programme may be reducing costs and improving care and Kudos to them for trying, this is only a tiny drop in a very big ocean. The real problem is a staggering $14,004 per person for seven visits to the emergency room for none emergency treatment. That is $2,000 per visit?!?!

I don't know if anyone here has read T.R. Reid's book, 'The Healing of America' but anyone who wants a good understanding of how to provide good medical care to all at affordable prices, need to look at and understand how other systems in developed countries work and compare that with health care in the United States.

I live in France where 77% of my medical bills are paid for by government organizations. The rest is automatically deducted from my salary. If I become unemployed that 23% is wavered. When a foreign friend was recently here on a visit and had to be taken to the emergency room, her bill was 72 Euro (around 72 dollars). That included a medical examination, an x-ray and antibiotics and a re-visit. I bet she's glad she wasn't in an American ER department.

The truth is, you, as American medical consumers have no idea what your healthcare truly costs. As long as America is allowed to profit for medicine, insurance premiums will continue to rise and yet more millions will become uninsured.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 5:19:55 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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Status: offline 		in america its corporatized.

the government by its police state regulations force a monopoly on people and they make ludicrous money.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 5:35:00 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Whilst the 'Bridges to Health' programme may be reducing costs and improving care and Kudos to them for trying, this is only a tiny drop in a very big ocean. The real problem is a staggering $14,004 per person for seven visits to the emergency room for none emergency treatment. That is $2,000 per visit?!?!

I don't know if anyone here has read T.R. Reid's book, 'The Healing of America' but anyone who wants a good understanding of how to provide good medical care to all at affordable prices, need to look at and understand how other systems in developed countries work and compare that with health care in the United States.

I live in France where 77% of my medical bills are paid for by government organizations. The rest is automatically deducted from my salary. If I become unemployed that 23% is wavered. When a foreign friend was recently here on a visit and had to be taken to the emergency room, her bill was 72 Euro (around 72 dollars). That included a medical examination, an x-ray and antibiotics and a re-visit. I bet she's glad she wasn't in an American ER department.

The truth is, you, as American medical consumers have no idea what your healthcare truly costs. As long as America is allowed to profit for medicine, insurance premiums will continue to rise and yet more millions will become uninsured.


Its called cost shifting. Costs from those who cant pay are shifted onto those who can.

Then insurance companies contract with hospitals to pay x amount of the bill.

An example of just room and board hospital fees...and only because Ohio law requires them to be posted....

ROOM AND BOARD — PER DAY CHARGES
SEMI-PRIVATE $1321-$1650
PRIVATE $1321-$1650
REHABILITATION $1,958.00
INTERMEDIATE (STEP DOWN) $2,874.00
ICU $4,295.00

NEONATAL INTENSIVE CARE $4,520.00

VAGINAL BIRTH-LOW RISK $7,158.00
VAGINAL BIRTH-HIGH RISK $12,389.00
AMNIOCENTESIS $590.00


Emergency Department charges are based on the level of emergency care provided to our patients. The levels, with level 1 representing basic emergency care, reflect the type of accommodations needed, the personnel resources, the intensity of care and the amount of time needed to provide treatment. The following charges do not include fees for drugs, supplies or additional ancillary procedures that may be required for a particular emergency treatment. They also do not include fees for Emergency Department physicians, who will bill separately for their services.

EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT CHARGE
EMER RM SERV-LEV 1 $269.00
EMER RM SERV-LEV 2 $518.00
EMER RM SERV-LEV 3 $948.00
EMER RM SERV-LEV 4 $1,479.00
EMER RM SERV-LEV 5 $2,197.00
CRITICAL CARE $4,012.00

http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patientcare/patient_and_visitor_information/financial_information/hospital_fees/pages/index.aspx

The information is out there.... many just want to keep it hidden. Last thing these places want people to do is comparison shop.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 6:45:10 AM   
MariaB


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Whilst I can fully understand that comparing prices when they are experiencing chest pains or their child has just cracked his head open, is not something that would happen, I also believe that forcing Americans to pay a higher share of health costs will induce people to look for alternatives.

Cost sharing does seem to be the major enemy but I believe its a multifactorial problem. The privacy mark up on medicine is a huge culprit. There was a recent case of the drug 'Anascorp', which sold at $100 per vial from Mexico, was marked up by the American medical market to $12,467 per vial. When costs such as this are passed through the system, no questions asked, then something is very wrong.

Ill probably get slated for this but I believe a single-provider health insurance at a price that is affordable and available to all is the way forward. You can call it socialism, but its socialism with a small 's' and its been proven to work.


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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 6:58:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I had hoped for a national health care with a single payer.... my hopes were dashed. Our former President, Nixon, decided to give his buddy Kaiser a helping hand and opened up health care in this country as a "for profit" industry. This is the result.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:02:17 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		American health care has three major problems...

1) patients are lawsuit happy. Even if the patient is told the risks and possible complications ahead of time, if one of those complications happen they sue. Hence malpractice insurance goes up, so doctors have to pay more, the same is true for hospitals.

2) Most hospitals are a for profit operation. They exist to make money, so the prices are higher. And the hospitals that are basically just trying to cover costs cant afford the best equipment or get the best doctors on staff.

3) health insurance companies can limit the amount of care they will pay for any period, or put caps on coverage for specific illnesses or conditions.

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(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:08:52 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

American health care has three major problems...

1) patients are lawsuit happy. Even if the patient is told the risks and possible complications ahead of time, if one of those complications happen they sue. Hence malpractice insurance goes up, so doctors have to pay more, the same is true for hospitals.



Actually American hospitals have none sue policies in place. Operations with complications, even if its surgeon error will profit from that operation.



< Message edited by MariaB -- 6/17/2013 7:09:14 AM >

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RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:19:06 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		the myth of Malpractice insurance is just that a myth. Doctors and hospitals write off their insurance against profits so its a full wash and is not what drives health care costs. Additionally lawsuits never get what they originally sue for and the ones that truly profit when they are settled are the lawyers. Hospitals and Doctors malpractice insurance is less than 1% of their profit so its truly misinformed to attribute rising health care costs to lawsuits and malpractice costs. Just a rental rates for offices could be offered as a contributiing cost to rising health care or the cost of fuel and electricity these are all factored into the cost of running a business and are irrelevant to the discussion of rising health care costs. Dont be fooled into buying into this argument it is totally fallacious.

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:19:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

1) patients are lawsuit happy. Even if the patient is told the risks and possible complications ahead of time, if one of those complications happen they sue. Hence malpractice insurance goes up, so doctors have to pay more, the same is true for hospitals.


I disagree.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 10,739 medical malpractice claims were paid in 2009 out of the more than 85,000 suits filed annually. Statistics from the U.S. Bureau of Justice show that plaintiffs won less than a quarter of the trials, and on average plaintiffs received $400,000.

Even if 85,000 were paid, that is an extremely small drop in the bucket for how many patients are treated by a physician each year.

Also, if a patient loses the case, they can come back on the patient and force them to pay for the doctor's legal fees.

Even in states where caps were placed on awards, the cost of malpractice insurance has not decreased.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:23:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

American health care has three major problems...

1) patients are lawsuit happy. Even if the patient is told the risks and possible complications ahead of time, if one of those complications happen they sue. Hence malpractice insurance goes up, so doctors have to pay more, the same is true for hospitals.



Actually American hospitals have none sue policies in place. Operations with complications, even if its surgeon error will profit from that operation.




Hospitals can have all the policies they desire. Doesnt mean they wont be sued, or that people wont win.

http://imusrcpharmacy.blogspot.com/2012/04/when-can-patients-sue-hospital-for.html



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:26:21 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		you are so right, the rising cost of malpractice insurance is a small drop in the bucket to the rising pharma costs as well as the tech costs like mri echo and cat and pet scanners Seamens, GE WESTINGHOUSE are the ones that are driving up costs as well as the insurance companies that are profiteering by rising the total insurance costs to hospitals of which malpractice is only one small part. Liability, flood, building insurance are all driven higher by one factor GREED!

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:38:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Oh I have heard all the excuses.

Nurses, staff, meds, cost shifting, insurance rates, building and expansion, physician salaries, insurance claims taking so long... yadda yadda yadda

Truth is, health care costs so much because they can demand so much and no one has ever thought to put a cap on what they can charge... and its all forms of health care. The only cost controlling measures is what insurance companies can get a contract to pay... wheeling and dealing... and that only benefits those with insurance.

Nice little racket they got going. Take as much as they can in the front, pay as little as they can out the back....

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 7:46:39 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		tazzy you hit the nail on the head....just look at the waste in the pharm industry on Research and Development if you broke out the expenses, the development includes the advertising which I would guess amounts to a hell of a lot more than the Research, although some of that research is not in the lab but in the market place about what to advertise what to develop and how to best actualize a profit. Rising drug costs are a considerable strain on the system as is the waste of non-collective purchasing of goods needed to deliver health care such as bandages pills etc. Additionally there is severe duplication of services in many areas such as the overpurchasing of mri scanners these are all the many factors that add up to tremendous waste in the system.

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 8:00:35 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Cost sharing does seem to be the major enemy but I believe its a multifactorial problem. The privacy mark up on medicine is a huge culprit. There was a recent case of the drug 'Anascorp', which sold at $100 per vial from Mexico, was marked up by the American medical market to $12,467 per vial. When costs such as this are passed through the system, no questions asked, then something is very wrong.


I poked around a bit for info about this drug. Its considered an orphan drug because its market is almost limited to Arizona. So those in Arizona would be the only one's to support the costs.

The FDA, apparently, also charges a fee for prescription meds, believe it or not. There is a waiver if the company who is providing the med makes under 50 million.... over all sales.. not just that specific drug. So, this company, Rare Disease Therapeutics, hasnt reached that threshold yet, but expects too, so that cost is passed along as well.

Breaking it down, the company charges hospitals $3,500.00 ... no, I didnt mistype that...

Now, couple that with the fact that the patient may need up to 5 doses, and we could be looking at a cost of $62,000 for treatment.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/20111118editorial1119-antivenom-cost-worse-than-sting.html

ETA

I forgot this part from the article. According to the writer, hospitals are charging so much because they figure insurance companies wont pay the total amount.

Hospitals then set a vastly higher price, assuming that insurers will pay just a fraction of it and that many patients won't pay the full amount. Insurers, for their part, are still figuring out whether they'll limit coverage to children and the elderly, who are most at risk of potentially fatal reactions.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/17/2013 8:01:59 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 8:07:45 AM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		Faints!!

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 8:09:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		But others will have you believe its because of the patients who dont pay.... those who use the system for a band aid station... or a slew of other excuses.

The health care system in the US needs a drastic overhaul... in every facet that affects it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care a... - 6/17/2013 8:15:56 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

in america its corporatized.

the government by its police state regulations force a monopoly on people and they make ludicrous money.



Utopia is just a click away- because everything is fair in a corpocracy. Bah.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 140
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