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RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 9:26:13 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Alright, I am pro life (with mediating factors,) but, life does not begin at fertilization, as for implantation, it does not begin there, since an implanted can still spontaneously abort for a number of reasons, all related to the health of the mother.

Let me explain, my last wife tested positive on a home pregnancy test, two pregnancy tests administered by her doctor, and yet two months later, she was not pregnant. We were told that a number of things dealing strictly with the mothers nutrition, general health, stress and other factors could lead to the body rejecting the implanted embryo.

So I would say that life begins at the third week of pregnancy, when the fetus develops a brain and brain stem.

Just trying to complicate the issue even more.

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 9:45:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You havent complicated it at all. There is also a condition called an incompetent cervix, for example. The womb simply wont hold a growing fetus because the cervix is weak. Consider it another design flaw. Then we have pregnancies that implant in the Fallopian tubes... or even in the abdominal wall. Again, design flaws. Ectopic pregnancies are not even known until, on average, 7 - 8 weeks.

According to the Mayo Clinic....

Week 5: The embryonic period begins

Fetal development three weeks after conception

The fifth week of pregnancy, or the third week after conception, marks the beginning of the embryonic period. This is when the baby's brain, spinal cord, heart and other organs begin to form.


Week 7: Baby's head develops

Fetal development five weeks after conception
Seven weeks into your pregnancy, or five weeks after conception, your baby's brain and face are rapidly developing. Tiny nostrils become visible, and the eye lenses begin to form. The arm buds that sprouted last week now take on the shape of paddles.

By the end of this week, your baby might be a little bigger than the top of a pencil eraser.

The brain isnt fully developed untila round the 16th week.

Here is an important part about life.... we have to breathe.

weeks 6 to 16

The developing lung resembles an endocrine gland at this time. By the end of this period, all of the major lung elements, except those required for gas exchange (e.g. alveoli), have appeared. Respiration is not possible during this phase, and fetuses born during this period are unable to survive.

weeks 16 to 26

The lumina of the bronchi enlarge and lung tissue becomes highly vascularized during the canalicular period. By week 24, respiratory bronchioles and alveolar ducts have developed from the terminal bronchioles. Respiration is possible towards the end of this period, but few fetuses born during this time will survive.

week 26 to birth

The important blood-air barrier is established during the terminal saccular period. Specialized cells of the respiratory epithelium appear at this time, including type I alveolar cells across which gas exchange occurs, and type II alveolar cells which secrete pulmonary surfactant. This surfactant is important in reducing the surface tension at the air-alveolar surface, allowing expansion of the terminal saccules. During this time, the lungs are rock-like and will sink if placed in water but will expand after the first breath, a trait which is used to determine if babies were born alive.[4]

Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:14:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Well, as I said, I am pro life with the belief that some abortions are necessary.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:16:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I am pro-choice.... a tempered choice.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:22:20 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Does giving a sub the choice between duct tape, hand cuffs, rope or leather restraints make me pro choice?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:23:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		No no no.. choice would be.. restrained or not restrained.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:53:26 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		unrestrained, interesting concept...

You mean kind of like when I let the dogs outside off a leash?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 10:55:31 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Only if you dont have a fence.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 11:04:22 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Only if you dont have a fence.



Three of my dogs will stay close without a leash. The others go in the back yard.


Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 6/23/2013 11:06:54 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 11:09:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.


And, as pro-choice as I am, I cant agree with that in totality. I do feel the government has the right to make the determination that, once reaching a certain point, abortion, for the sake of convenience, becomes murder. That point is viability. If science can show that they can push that age back further, then my thinking goes back with science.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 11:16:28 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Back on topic, even though I am pro life, I do not think that the government has the right to legislate what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Especially since we do not live in a Theocracy.


And, as pro-choice as I am, I cant agree with that in totality. I do feel the government has the right to make the determination that, once reaching a certain point, abortion, for the sake of convenience, becomes murder. That point is viability. If science can show that they can push that age back further, then my thinking goes back with science.



That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 11:23:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.


A Constitutional Amendment, the Kama Sutra as the guidebook.

Tell me, which one is the position typically taken in the men's rest room?



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/23/2013 11:29:34 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

That part I agree with, but as for the rest, they should not be able to legislate what a woman can and cannot do. It kind goes back to a congressman maybe a congressional candidate that wanted to legislate sexual positions.


A Constitutional Amendment, the Kama Sutra as the guidebook.

Tell me, which one is the position typically taken in the men's rest room?





I have no clue.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 2:54:19 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.' What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 4:10:38 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Thats a hell of a stretch...wow

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 4:11:45 AM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 8:23:44 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.' What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?


Where the fuck did you get that from?

Are you sure you have medical experience?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 9:40:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.' What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?

No. She was stating a basic fact.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 9:43:31 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


'Without the ability to breathe... gas exchange... life can not be sustained.' What are you saying here? Are you saying that a prem that doesn't have the ability to breath on its own should be classed as an abortion if the mother so wishes?


Where the fuck did you get that from?

Are you sure you have medical experience?




Lets just put this down to language barriers. I asked because I clearly didn't understand what you said. Your reaction is so aggressive but then I've always thought of you as an overly aggressive person with too much time on your hands. Unlike others on these forums who climb up your back passage, Ill do no such thing.

To accuse me of lying on a personal level takes the biscuit!! You want to use the lowest form of bullying to have your say?, go right ahead, its just fallen on deaf ears.





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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: 20 weeks abortion bill passes the HOR - 6/24/2013 9:53:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Pft.... no..

First, if you dont understand, instead of taking the worse case scenario and ascribing that to my meaning, you should have asked. If you dont understand, dont attack. The aggressiveness on my part is a result of the misunderstanding on your part, and the attempt to demean me by making such an asinine assumption.

Second, I would expect someone with a bit of neonatal background to understand what is meant by gas exchange in order to breathe.

Whats the leading cause of death in premature infants?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 140
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