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Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 11:52:51 AM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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You would think this is common knowledge. This mother didn't seem to get the memo. If some guy tried to befriend me in wal mart I would alert security not let him take my little girl. I feel horrible for what that poor child went through.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/amber-alert-issued-for-missing-girl-8-taken-from-jacksonville-walmart/-/475880/20673410/-/140v30n/-/index.html

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 1:18:26 PM   
DomKen


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I have to believe no one is that naïve. Something more was going on between the mother and the scumbag.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 1:28:38 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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That was my first thought as well, surely no one is that naive to let their child go off with some guy they just met in wal mart.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 1:33:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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Or at Whole Foods or Costco, either. Is this supposed to be about the ignorance and dangers of modern society, or is the murdered kid just the convenient vehicle for a Wal-Mart bash?

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 1:47:41 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

................ or is the murdered kid just the convenient vehicle for a Wal-Mart bash?


That is a stretch.

I cant believe that story either.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 2:04:18 PM   
tsatske


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I feel so badly for all involved. yes, it was obviously a bad decision on the mother's part, an unimaginably bad decision. It's hard to wrap my head around.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 2:12:00 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

................ or is the murdered kid just the convenient vehicle for a Wal-Mart bash?


That is a stretch.



Thread title: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart!

First post: If some guy tried to befriend me in wal mart

Second post from the thread starter: some guy they just met in wal mart.


No stretch at all, unless we are to assume this would be perfectly fine parenting if it happened at Target.


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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 2:17:12 PM   
tj444


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well, yeah... there really are some dumb clueless & trusting people around.. that said, why did he pick Walmart? .. probably cuz Walmart has those very friendly senior greeters, I expect he may have passed himself off as one of them??? he passed himself off previously as being a social service worker so he seems to be pretty good at conning people.. those are just the times he was caught, how many times did he get away with abusing kids? I feel for the little girl that was murdered and her mother who now has to live with the guilt she must feel now and for the rest of her life.. not to mention the condemnation she will get from friends, family and strangers.. and too, who knows if social services will try to take her other kids away from her..

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 2:19:30 PM   
hlen5


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The situation would be just as grotesque at Target.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 2:51:23 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I have to believe no one is that naïve. Something more was going on between the mother and the scumbag.


I have to disagree. Stop blaming the victims, okay? With pedophiles, and yes, I speak from a former victim's perspective, his is a common M.O.

The man was experienced and slick at hunting his prey. You'd be surprised how many vanillas think that once someone is "old" that they aren't interested in sex, that it always happens somewhere else to someone else's kid and would never happen to their own, that all people they meet in Walmart or church would NEVER do anything like that, and that stuff like this only happens to people who somehow deserve it. Like a judgment from God.

The kid was 8, gullible in spite of all the "stranger danger" teachings in school. The guy probably took her right to McDonalds in the Walmart, said "Oops, I left my wallet in my car" and took the girl with him to get the wallet...he might have even had the girl climb up in the van to get it where it seemed to have fallen between the seats, or under the seat where he usually hid it.

Long time ago, I was an obedient, gullible child. I'm one of the lucky ones who didn't get killed or sold into human trafficking. (Most moms trust 7 and 8 year olds not to leave Walmart with someone they just met and/or not to leave the apartment while they're sleeping after getting off of graveyard shift.)

Btw, DomKen...it's HARD raising kids. Three of them at Walmart could be a nightmare if they wandered off in three different directions, or even two, as a group of children will FREQUENTLY try to do. If one kid is wailing for McDonalds, promising to bring back sandwitches for her siblings, and the mom has to buy shoes or clothing for the other two, hurrying up before the bus is due to come (if they miss it they will be late for going to work, etc.), sometimes a mother will trust an older child to remain in the store and do what's been agreed to.

Long time ago, at the mall when my kid was only three, I was waiting in line at Sears with my mother and my son...and my son disappeared. It took store security an hour to find him. He had it in his head to go to the pet store and silently faded away like a little ghost. After that day, he wore a leash on his wrist...and "everyone" in our small town called me a bad mother for treating my son "like a dog". I still kept him on a leash, telling them "better a live dog than a dead kid".

In many states, kids are expected to go to their bus stop or walk to and from school. If you think pedophiles aren't hunting these kids and taking a few, think again. Who are we going to blame? Their mother? The school? Let's put the blame where it belongs...on the perpetrator.

Look at this man's arrest record. All his previous times of sex offenses with children were given a mere hand slap. The dude was caught red handed and they kept letting him out again and again. IMHO, a father being caught beating the cr*p out of him would get more time in jail (for being a vigilante) than the actual child molester would.

When we lived in Florida and I was five going on six, my father was in the hospital for months. We had no way to travel to visit him, except by having a friend of dad's, who had three little kids of his own, come get us to take us to the hospital. They wouldn't let my sister and I to visit with him for many months, until he knew who we were and they thought it was safe for us to see him. Mom had to leave me and my sister with dad's friend (and/or work buddy) and his three kids. She thought it was safe. We were in a mental institution hospital, and the guy watching us had five little kids to keep track of, what in the world could he possibly do? He sat the other kids down in the cafeteria for icecream and took me in with him to the men's room. Later when mom took me to the police station, after taking me to the doctor for confirmation, guess what the policeman said to my (married) mother? "Whatza matter lady, did your boyfriend get nasty with your little girl?" in a sneering tone. I was there. I heard everything. And yes, I have a THING about victims getting blamed, including the other victim, the parent whose world has just come crashing down and is blaming themselves heavily for something they had no control over.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 3:19:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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News reports are filling in the details, and correcting the initial errors is the reporting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-body-abducted-florida-girl-found-19463732

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 3:20:41 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Btw, DomKen...it's HARD raising kids. Three of them at Walmart could be a nightmare if they wandered off in three different directions, or even two, as a group of children will FREQUENTLY try to do. If one kid is wailing for McDonalds, promising to bring back sandwitches for her siblings, and the mom has to buy shoes or clothing for the other two, hurrying up before the bus is due to come (if they miss it they will be late for going to work, etc.), sometimes a mother will trust an older child to remain in the store and do what's been agreed to.

But she didn't send the kid to McD's and the guy grabbed the kid. She let the guy take her kid to McD's. She had just met the guy a few minutes before. I'm still having a lot of trouble with the idea that any mother no matter how harried sends her kid off with an absolute stranger no matter how nice and old he may seem.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 3:22:13 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

News reports are filling in the details, and correcting the initial errors is the reporting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-body-abducted-florida-girl-found-19463732

Now that makes a lot more sense.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 3:49:39 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Btw, DomKen...it's HARD raising kids. Three of them at Walmart could be a nightmare if they wandered off in three different directions, or even two, as a group of children will FREQUENTLY try to do. If one kid is wailing for McDonalds, promising to bring back sandwitches for her siblings, and the mom has to buy shoes or clothing for the other two, hurrying up before the bus is due to come (if they miss it they will be late for going to work, etc.), sometimes a mother will trust an older child to remain in the store and do what's been agreed to.

But she didn't send the kid to McD's and the guy grabbed the kid. She let the guy take her kid to McD's. She had just met the guy a few minutes before. I'm still having a lot of trouble with the idea that any mother no matter how harried sends her kid off with an absolute stranger no matter how nice and old he may seem.

Both my kids were on a wrist leash until they were at least 8 years old no matter where they went.
We lived barely 100 yards from the school at that time and we would never let the kids out of our sight until they were safely inside the school building and one of us would always go and collect them.
They never played outside unsupervised by one of us.
And we would never ever trust anyone to look after either of them unless we knew them extremely well and they were at least 16 years old.

I don't care how busy or harried anyone is, there is just no excuse whatsoever to let your child out of sight unsupervised or on a very strong wrist link.
Most of the parents of kids going to the same school had the same idea as us - it was very common.
We also saw it at the local supermarket and in the shopping streets and malls.
Even in McD's, most young kids were either still strapped in their buggy/stroller or had the wrist link still attached to a parent or the furniture.
We ararely saw young kids running amok anywhere or not strapped to one of their parents.

Some parents deserve to lose their kids if they can't look after them properly.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 4:12:54 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Or at Whole Foods or Costco, either. Is this supposed to be about the ignorance and dangers of modern society, or is the murdered kid just the convenient vehicle for a Wal-Mart bash?



Nope I assure you not a wal mart bash, just happened to be where the mother was shopping.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 4:17:51 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

News reports are filling in the details, and correcting the initial errors is the reporting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-body-abducted-florida-girl-found-19463732

Now that makes a lot more sense.

Yeah that is a bit more detail and gives an explanation to why she trusted him. I can't imagine how awful she must feel. I have an over the top friendly little girl who thinks everyone is her best friend. She would be one to walk right out with someone and be climbing into a car before the thought of this may not be a good idea hit her. I do not let her out of my sight when we are out.

quote:

Both my kids were on a wrist leash until they were at least 8 years old no matter where they went.


In parking lots and such I kept her in my arms or in a stroller, but my main fear was her getting hit. I have a friend who's cousin's 2 year old was struck and killed in a parking lot while standing right next to his father at the end of their car. The driver was just too busy trying to find a parking space instead of watching out for people.

quote:

I don't care how busy or harried anyone is, there is just no excuse whatsoever to let your child out of sight unsupervised or on a very strong wrist link.
Most of the parents of kids going to the same school had the same idea as us - it was very common.


People here leave their kids in the car while they go into the store. Yes it is a rinky dink little town where everyone knows everyone but still it only takes a few seconds for something horrible to happen. Our friend saw little tiny kids sitting in a car and he stood there, when she came out he glared at her and said lady your lucky I am a nice guy I could have taken your kids just now. She glared back and left. I don't get it, I dont care how well known we are here or how many know my kids I would never ever leave them alone in the parking lot.

< Message edited by Moonlightmaddnes -- 6/22/2013 4:30:00 PM >


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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 4:26:47 PM   
LittleGirlHeart


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I am ok with victim blaming in this case. Nothing in my mind ever excuses a parent from letting their kids go off with a stranger they didn't know. no matter how harried, or tired or what ever reasoning they had.

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 5:00:06 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Btw, DomKen...it's HARD raising kids. Three of them at Walmart could be a nightmare if they wandered off in three different directions, or even two, as a group of children will FREQUENTLY try to do. If one kid is wailing for McDonalds, promising to bring back sandwitches for her siblings, and the mom has to buy shoes or clothing for the other two, hurrying up before the bus is due to come (if they miss it they will be late for going to work, etc.), sometimes a mother will trust an older child to remain in the store and do what's been agreed to.

But she didn't send the kid to McD's and the guy grabbed the kid. She let the guy take her kid to McD's. She had just met the guy a few minutes before. I'm still having a lot of trouble with the idea that any mother no matter how harried sends her kid off with an absolute stranger no matter how nice and old he may seem.


He could have passed himself off as a Walmart greeter, as someone else said. Our society forces us to trust people whether we want to or not, and we are seen as paranoid or "with issues" if we say no and keep the apron strings short/tight.

A determined predator WILL bring down prey. Most pedophiles don't forcefully snatch children...tricking them is so much easier and less risky. Who knows, she might have seen him in the store or in her community several times before and thought that nice helpful man (who's kids and grandkids had grown up and moved away) was really just another kind human being who would watch over a kid (maybe he's the one who said he was going to Walmart's McD's and the daughter started hollering that she wanted to go too) so that they got back to their parent safely.

DomKen, people have hired me to take care of their children after talking with me for ten minutes. They have gone off to the movie theater, leaving me in their home with their precious child/infant/children when they didn't even know my last name or where I lived, nor did they check out any references. My mother had to do the same when finding babysitters for us.

We trust our children to go into a store's bathroom by themselves by about six years of age, trusting that nobody in the busy bathroom will molest them. We send them walking to school, waiting at school bus stops, we trust them with teachers, teacher's assistants, coaches, Sunday school "teachers", for slumber parties, birthday parties, door to door selling of candy or whatever to raise money for the school or for band or whatever, giving money so their kids can run down the block to where the icecream truck is stopping to sell goodies, going door to door seeing if neighbors want some yard work or snow shoveling or car washing or dog washing done, on field trips, to ballet or karate class, etc. Each time...we are trusting strangers not to molest, hurt, kidnap, or kill our kids.

I'm too paranoid to let some stranger take my kid to some place within a store I'm shopping in...but then, I've caught a lot of hell over the years from people who insisted my kid would handle himself just fine without my watching over him. Without having been a victim many times over as a small child, I never would have been so vigilant with my own son. Yes, I went on all field trips, spent a lot of time in his classrooms, went to birthday parties with him, wouldn't allow him to do any fund raising, didn't allow slumber parties other than in my own home, went to him to karate class, and yes, made him come with me into the ladies' bathroom until he was 11 years old (keep in mind that he's autistic)...and even then, when I sent him into the men's bathroom, I lurked in the opened outer doorway, listening carefully and calling out to him every minute. Anything triggering my Spidey senses and I would have rushed in, damn the consequences.

I'm saying that if the mother had never been molested as a kid herself, likely she was just the average human being who was clueless that something like this could happen. Imagine! A pedophile having the balls to make friends with a mother because he wants to make use of her little kid! He's supposed to be the dirty old recluse that lurks in dark alleys, luring kids with offers of candy, not someone who will make sure the parent can ID him in a lineup.

Some parents drop their kids off at theaters to watch some Disney movie and will drive off to go shopping, picking them up when the movie is over. Other parents take their kid to video arcades in malls while the parents go off shopping. Do you really think this is better/safer than what this woman did? (Any of those kids could be molested.)

The only difference between this mother and millions more just like her (who let their kids go off to some massive birthday party at Chuck E Cheese or a video arcade in a mall, etc.) is that a pedophile had targeted her kid and was good at capturing his prey. I don't see the trust she placed in this stranger as any different than the trust (and risk we take) when we send our young elementary school aged kid off to summer camp, etc.

My mother never met any of our horney teenaged camp counselors, the bus driver, the cooks, etc. Hell, she never even met the parents of the kids who asked me to birthday parties when I was in school, nor the people I stayed with when their kids asked me to go to slumber parties and I had a note that let me take the school bus home with them and return the following day on that bus, seeing my mother when I got home from school the next day.

In some environments you simply feel safe. Especially when there are security cameras everywhere and lots of people to intervene if the kid should scream, "HELP! He's not my daddy/grandpa/whatever!"

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 5:05:44 PM   
LittleGirlHeart


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Walmart greeter or not, or what ever cover story they had, I would have said nope. sorry, don't know you. you will not be taking my child anywhere.


I would be absolutely ok with being seen as having issues, or being paranoid,
The second article says he befriended her a week before an offered to buy them clothing at walmart they looked like they needed it.

You hear about someone who trusted their kid to be out of their sight for just a moment, or they were only over there, they should have been fine.

America's most wanted host John walsh, felt confident his son would be ok two toy store isles over, his son kidnapped and murdered.

Kids have been molested in the bathroom by a stranger, and shoot, here in the mall an adult was sexually assaulted in a bathroom by another adult.

You shouldn't need to have been molested before to have it occure to you that your child shouldn't go off with a person you only met the week before, or to know that there's dangers to being to trusting.

If that's the case then they shouldn't be parents in my opinion, or they need a care taker to tag along and make sure they are not so nieve they are a danger to themselves, which again in that case they have no business having kids, if they need a care taker.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia



He could have passed himself off as a Walmart greeter, as someone else said. Our society forces us to trust people whether we want to or not, and we are seen as paranoid or "with issues" if we say no and keep the apron strings short/tight.

A determined predator WILL bring down prey. Most pedophiles don't forcefully snatch children...tricking them is so much easier and less risky. Who knows, she might have seen him in the store or in her community several times before and thought that nice helpful man (who's kids and grandkids had grown up and moved away) was really just another kind human being who would watch over a kid (maybe he's the one who said he was going to Walmart's McD's and the daughter started hollering that she wanted to go too) so that they got back to their parent safely.

DomKen, people have hired me to take care of their children after talking with me for ten minutes. They have gone off to the movie theater, leaving me in their home with their precious child/infant/children when they didn't even know my last name or where I lived, nor did they check out any references. My mother had to do the same when finding babysitters for us.

We trust our children to go into a store's bathroom by themselves by about six years of age, trusting that nobody in the busy bathroom will molest them. We send them walking to school, waiting at school bus stops, we trust them with teachers, teacher's assistants, coaches, Sunday school "teachers", for slumber parties, birthday parties, door to door selling of candy or whatever to raise money for the school or for band or whatever, giving money so their kids can run down the block to where the icecream truck is stopping to sell goodies, going door to door seeing if neighbors want some yard work or snow shoveling or car washing or dog washing done, on field trips, to ballet or karate class, etc. Each time...we are trusting strangers not to molest, hurt, kidnap, or kill our kids.

I'm too paranoid to let some stranger take my kid to some place within a store I'm shopping in...but then, I've caught a lot of hell over the years from people who insisted my kid would handle himself just fine without my watching over him. Without having been a victim many times over as a small child, I never would have been so vigilant with my own son. Yes, I went on all field trips, spent a lot of time in his classrooms, went to birthday parties with him, wouldn't allow him to do any fund raising, didn't allow slumber parties other than in my own home, went to him to karate class, and yes, made him come with me into the ladies' bathroom until he was 11 years old (keep in mind that he's autistic)...and even then, when I sent him into the men's bathroom, I lurked in the opened outer doorway, listening carefully and calling out to him every minute. Anything triggering my Spidey senses and I would have rushed in, damn the consequences.

I'm saying that if the mother had never been molested as a kid herself, likely she was just the average human being who was clueless that something like this could happen. Imagine! A pedophile having the balls to make friends with a mother because he wants to make use of her little kid! He's supposed to be the dirty old recluse that lurks in dark alleys, luring kids with offers of candy, not someone who will make sure the parent can ID him in a lineup.

Some parents drop their kids off at theaters to watch some Disney movie and will drive off to go shopping, picking them up when the movie is over. Other parents take their kid to video arcades in malls while the parents go off shopping. Do you really think this is better/safer than what this woman did? (Any of those kids could be molested.)

The only difference between this mother and millions more just like her (who let their kids go off to some massive birthday party at Chuck E Cheese or a video arcade in a mall, etc.) is that a pedophile had targeted her kid and was good at capturing his prey. I don't see the trust she placed in this stranger as any different than the trust (and risk we take) when we send our young elementary school aged kid off to summer camp, etc.

My mother never met any of our horney teenaged camp counselors, the bus driver, the cooks, etc. Hell, she never even met the parents of the kids who asked me to birthday parties when I was in school, nor the people I stayed with when their kids asked me to go to slumber parties and I had a note that let me take the school bus home with them and return the following day on that bus, seeing my mother when I got home from school the next day.

In some environments you simply feel safe. Especially when there are security cameras everywhere and lots of people to intervene if the kid should scream, "HELP! He's not my daddy/grandpa/whatever!"




< Message edited by LittleGirlHeart -- 6/22/2013 5:35:58 PM >

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RE: Dont let a stranger have your kid at wal mart! - 6/22/2013 5:48:43 PM   
LittleGirlHeart


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I was that way too. I'd talk to any one, regardless of the stranger danger talks my mom gave us, if they acted friendly and nice I would have had no problem going off with them. it probably wouldn't have even occurred to me this is not a good idea.

I just saw an nbc news clip about a couple who pulled into a gas station to get gas, and then left the car running with their baby in it to go talk to relatives in the parking lot, just a mere 3 cars away and someone jumped in an took the car. It only took the parents turning their back for a second.


They were incredibly lucky, they ran after the car as he was driving away and some how dad managed to get in the car, and kick and badger the car jacker till he jumped out of the car.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

I have an over the top friendly little girl who thinks everyone is her best friend. She would be one to walk right out with someone and be climbing into a car before the thought of this may not be a good idea hit her. I do not let her out of my sight when we are out.



People here leave their kids in the car while they go into the store. Yes it is a rinky dink little town where everyone knows everyone but still it only takes a few seconds for something horrible to happen. Our friend saw little tiny kids sitting in a car and he stood there, when she came out he glared at her and said lady your lucky I am a nice guy I could have taken your kids just now. She glared back and left. I don't get it, I dont care how well known we are here or how many know my kids I would never ever leave them alone in the parking lot.


(in reply to Moonlightmaddnes)
Profile   Post #: 20
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