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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Also fascinating... With all the national appearances Trayvon's mom made talking about how good he was...Trayvon's text messages show that she had kicked him out of the house for causing trouble.

So? Does being a teenager now equal a death sentence?

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

There is nothing in evidence to demonstrate George confronted anyone after a week of trial. And if he did, the duty to retreat would be at when the use of force occurred, at which time George was pinned to the ground.

That's why legal analysts are becoming increasingly vocal as the trial continues that George is likely to be acquitted.

So Martin rushed up to Zimmerman who wasn't following him and attacked him for absolutely no reason and with no warning. An attack so fast and devastating that Zimmerman was immediately on his back and helpless to defend himself except by drawing a gun and killing Martin.

Is that really what you're claiming?

The State seems to be doing a poor job of showing any evidence to the contrary. Evidence does strongly indicate that George had ceased following when advised to do so, as the fight started at the same spot where George agreed to not follow.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The fight started where and ended where? The exhaustion of escape was where? Did Trayvon drag him? Nobody gives a fuck about the moment of the shot, he has admitted that crime, he now has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he meets the statute exception, for an aggressor.


It isn't like he was locked in a bathroom with the guy. Therein will lie the rub, no more and no less, the rest is ornamentation.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The fight started where and ended where? The exhaustion of escape was where? Did Trayvon drag him? Nobody gives a fuck about the moment of the shot, he has admitted that crime, he now has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he meets the statute exception, for an aggressor.


It isn't like he was locked in a bathroom with the guy. Therein will lie the rub, no more and no less, the rest is ornamentation.

News to me that a defendent has to prove innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Did I miss something above?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

There is nothing in evidence to demonstrate George confronted anyone after a week of trial. And if he did, the duty to retreat would be at when the use of force occurred, at which time George was pinned to the ground.

That's why legal analysts are becoming increasingly vocal as the trial continues that George is likely to be acquitted.

So Martin rushed up to Zimmerman who wasn't following him and attacked him for absolutely no reason and with no warning. An attack so fast and devastating that Zimmerman was immediately on his back and helpless to defend himself except by drawing a gun and killing Martin.

Is that really what you're claiming?

The State seems to be doing a poor job of showing any evidence to the contrary. Evidence does strongly indicate that George had ceased following when advised to do so, as the fight started at the same spot where George agreed to not follow.

That seems unlikely. If Zimmerman stopped pursuing when told to that means he just stood around doing nothing for around 4 minutes. It seems much more likely that if he stopped pursuing and having lost sight of Martin he would return to his vehicle. Since that isn't what happened it is reasonable to conclude he didn't actually stop.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The fight started where and ended where? The exhaustion of escape was where? Did Trayvon drag him? Nobody gives a fuck about the moment of the shot, he has admitted that crime, he now has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he meets the statute exception, for an aggressor.


It isn't like he was locked in a bathroom with the guy. Therein will lie the rub, no more and no less, the rest is ornamentation.

News to me that a defendent has to prove innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Did I miss something above?

When the defense is an affirmative defense the burden shifts to the defense.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
View Entire Chapter
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nobody gives a fuck about that, he has admitted to the murder, he is seeking the statute exception of self defense, he had several chances to cease his aggravated stalking, (one of the issues in 2nd degree murder) his aggressor stance, he could have left at any time prior to being knocked down, say, during the shouting match which went on for how long?

Anywhere from his truck to where Martin was found, or even before. Unless Martin dragged him to the spot, near dead, I don't see any exhaustion of escape attempts prior to the murder.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nobody gives a fuck about that, he has admitted to the murder, he is seeking the statute exception of self defense, he had several chances to cease his aggravated stalking, (one of the issues in 2nd degree murder) his aggressor stance, he could have left at any time prior to being knocked down, say, during the shouting match which went on for how long?

Anywhere from his truck to where Martin was found, or even before. Unless Martin dragged him to the spot, near dead, I don't see any exhaustion of escape attempts prior to the murder.

If it is self defense, then by definition it was not murder.

Thus, George has admitted to no murder.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

But Ron that only applies if it is use of force by the aggressor...Zimmerman is saying he was not the aggressor at the time of the attack and therefore it is the below part of the statutes that apply...

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

I guess it all comes down to who was the aggressor...and since there are no witnesses to that exact part of the happenings there will be " Reasonable doubt" and he will get off.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

But Ron that only applies if it is use of force by the aggressor...Zimmerman is saying he was not the aggressor at the time of the attack and therefore it is the below part of the statutes that apply...

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

I guess it all comes down to who was the aggressor...and since there are no witnesses to that exact part of the happenings there will be " Reasonable doubt" and he will get off.

Butch

Aggravated stalking shows him as the aggressor, he was already told that he didn't need to follow the guy by the cops (regardless of how anyone wants to mince that asswipe) and thats where I am at in the statute. Did he admit to following him, yes. Did he admit to killing him, yes, has he given any testimony or has anyone given that he tried to get away from Travon at anytime during the altercation? There was a shouting match. Why wasnt fuckface face down when Martin reigned down his blows (LOL)? He would have been by attempting to run away.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nobody gives a fuck about that, he has admitted to the murder, he is seeking the statute exception of self defense, he had several chances to cease his aggravated stalking, (one of the issues in 2nd degree murder) his aggressor stance, he could have left at any time prior to being knocked down, say, during the shouting match which went on for how long?

Anywhere from his truck to where Martin was found, or even before. Unless Martin dragged him to the spot, near dead, I don't see any exhaustion of escape attempts prior to the murder.