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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 1:55:27 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I wouldn't go so far to say murder is legal in Florida, but that is indeed the standard. The prosecution is required to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt before before the jury can really even consider if the State has proven the elements of the crime.

Any evidence of self defense is as simple as Ziimerman's unsupported assertions.

Overcoming that beyond a reasonable doubt would require something like a video tape or multiple independent witnesses disputing the claims.

Murder is legal in Florida as long as you don't do it in front of a camera or a bunch of people who don't like you.

Hopefully Zimmerman gets convicted and then overturned at the appellate level so this can reach the federal courts. This standard is both ridiculous and unconstitutional.


George's assertions are quite supporters. Witnesses heard the encounter start where he said it started. A witness saw Trayvon on top of George, where George said, seconds before the shot, with what looked like raining down blows on him.

George had a busted nose, scalp lacerations, and bruising and lumps on all sides of his head. The crime scene tech and physician assistant both pointed out these lumps to the jury.

Forensics show Trayvon on top of George at the moment the shot was fired.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 421
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 1:56:31 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Will anyone believe that as reasonable people? He was following him right up until he killed the guy.



Untrue. He spent several minutes on phone with dispatch not even knowing where Trayvon was before getting attacked 10 seconds jog away from his truck.

Based on the map here http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg
It looks to be about 400' by foot from the truck to where the altercation occurred.
If you can jog that in 10 seconds, the USOC wants you to sign up because there's gold in your future.


That map is wrong. The truck was parked by the sidewalk leading to the T.


suuure it is.
Got a better one?


Don't need a better one. This is known fact now.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 422
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 1:57:44 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Note that map was made in March 2012. Many hundreds of pages of evidence and witness statements have come out since.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 423
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:00:02 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The statutes you link to and quote apply pre-trial only and, in fact, the article in the second link you posted says: "Where the defendant in a Florida criminal case presents any evidence of self-defense (which Zimmerman did pre-trial), the State must overcome the claim of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt."


You're making two classic mistakes. Let me help

1. You READ THE LAW. What a waste of time (here).
2. You presented facts, a waste (here) of both time and pixels.


Thanks for your help. :-)

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 424
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:00:06 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		That map also has George's path wrong. He went down the sidewalk where the T intersection is, and just west of the T is where the encounter started.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 425
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:03:38 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I wouldn't go so far to say murder is legal in Florida, but that is indeed the standard. The prosecution is required to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt before before the jury can really even consider if the State has proven the elements of the crime.

Not true. The prosecution must prove manslaughter beyond any reasonable doubt.

Now if they had what would I think, pretty obviously need, a better prosecution. If I understand what happened correctly, it could be argued that once Zimmerman got out of his car and approached Martin, at that point Martin was on the defensive and he then had a right to 'stand his own' as it were.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 426
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:04:46 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Again,notice how the zimmers have every possible angle and item slanting toward the killer and away from the victim.No matter what.


Similar popular movements happen in communities where a star athlete or group of winning football players is charged with rape.


For some reason, the victim is often revictimized by shunning, being blamed for the attack,."What was she wearing?Why was she out at a party?Why was she drinking?Putting all the onus on the victim.


In this case,the zimmers have poor Geoarge as a valiant hero,protecting his neighborhood from thugs and druggies......selfless and brave.


And the dead boy? Well he`s a scary black guy who doesn`t deserves any consideration. Scum, thief. hood,black....


There is a real reason the rightist/bigoted media are spreading fake/false stories and fake photos, depicting the victim as a one-boy drug-crazed crime spree......to influence the public against the victim.

And it works. Just look at the garbage that get repeated here.

George`s lawyer even tried to submit some of these fake/bigoted stories as actual real evidence in the real trial. Later having to apologize for it and withdraw it. But the bigoted/shameful damage was already done.

That`s how powerful this kind of dirt bag tactic is.....make the victim look like trash, dehumanize them and assassinate their characters and you can trick folks.....into not caring.

So powerful in fact that Georges lawyers were also fooled by it.I don`t think the knew the video they submitted of two homeless men fighting over a bicycle was not Trayvon.

A 17 y/o rape victim can be turned into a whore and liar, while her attackers can be turned into saints. We see that all the time.

For all the money George has spent on lawyers,he`s not being served very well. The dumb assed joke during opening,getting tricked by a bigoted internet site, demeaning the trail by calling their opponents "stupid" doesn`t make them look very smart or wise.








< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/29/2013 2:08:44 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 427
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:06:42 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I wouldn't go so far to say murder is legal in Florida, but that is indeed the standard. The prosecution is required to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt before before the jury can really even consider if the State has proven the elements of the crime.

Not true. The prosecution must prove manslaughter beyond any reasonable doubt.

Now if they had what would I think, pretty obviously need, a better prosecution. If I understand what happened correctly, it could be argued that once Zimmerman got out of his car and approached Martin, at that point Martin was on the defensive and he then had a right to 'stand his own' as it were.


It is unproven that George approached Trayvon.

And the SYG statute says that "If you are attacked" you can stand your ground and meet force with force.

Prior to Trayvon's assault on George, no evidence exists that George attacked Trayvon.

And I have already linked sources that show the Prosecution must disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.


< Message edited by Raiikun -- 6/29/2013 2:07:46 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 428
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:10:19 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

So powerful in fact that Georges lawyers were also fooled by it.I don`t think the knew the video they submitted of two homeless men fighting over a bicycle was not Trayvon.


That video was recorded on Trayvon's phone.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 429
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:15:42 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		`So why did the dope(George`s crack lawyer) apologize?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/29/2013 2:16:09 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 430
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:19:14 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Because while in court he described the video wrong, and wanted to stay accurate. Someone apparently mistook one of the guys for one of Trayvon's friends.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 431
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:23:25 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		We do know now due to FOIA requests etc, and info from Trayvon's phone, that Trayvon enjoyed fighting, (there is even a text on his phone where a friend implored him to stop fighting so much), tried to buy an illegal firearm the weekend before the trip to Sanford, the jewelry found in his possession matched the jewelry robbed from a home near his school, and that he likely got kicked off the bus to Sanford when he punched the bus driver.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 432
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:28:31 PM   
LeesaLove


Posts: 14
Joined: 12/2/2008
From: Chicago/Cincinnati
Status: offline 		I do not think, in any way, the Zimmerman is racist. What's funny, however, is the fact that the defense pretty much made the jury think that Martin, and the people around him, are/were racist. The defense is winning, hands down, as of right now. The prosecution's witnesses have all been fucked by the defense.

Zimmerman should have fucking stopped following Martin when the police told him to. However, I can see his concern due to the amount of robberies in the area at that time. The perpetrators were apparently young black males. This does not make Zimmerman racist. Also, Zimmerman was horrible at anything physical. He could not fight. His MMA trainer testified to that. Martin was an athlete. A neighbor saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

I think he deserves manslaughter. After all, he did kill someone and it could have all been avoided if he just listened to police. However, I don't think he followed him planning on shooting him. I think he panicked when no one helped and thought it was the only option. Murder 2 is a bit much here.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 433
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:33:59 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeesaLove
Murder 2 is a bit much here.

Why?
You've just said the idiot put himself in harm's way and was too much of a pussy to deal with the consequences rather than killing somebody. Why's that manslaughter rather than murder?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to LeesaLove)
Profile   Post #: 434
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:34:23 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline 		when he left his car with a loaded gun to challenge the boy he was wrong when he stated to the boy to stop he had no dentition authority he was wrong when he tried to physically detain the boy he was wrong when he escalated use of force on the boy he was wrong. everything else is just grandstanding by lawyers

_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to LeesaLove)
Profile   Post #: 435
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:34:41 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If George had stayed in/at his car, the boy would have made it home.
If Trayvon had stayed home, he would been home.

There would have been no incident.
There would have been no incident.


There is no denying that.
There is no denying that.






I may be confused, but are you trying to say that this was all Trayvon's fault because he decided to walk to the store?

Nope. Not trying to say that at all. Might you be confused like I might have been, but was Owner59 trying to say the this was all George's fault because he decided to try and find out what someone who was walking around inside a gated-community, in the rain, at night, what they were doing there?

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 436
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:40:05 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If George had stayed in/at his car, the boy would have made it home.
If Trayvon had stayed home, he would been home.

There would have been no incident.
There would have been no incident.


There is no denying that.
There is no denying that.






I may be confused, but are you trying to say that this was all Trayvon's fault because he decided to walk to the store?

That's what it looked like to me.


Looks like you're confused too.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 437
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:44:03 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Nope. Not trying to say that at all. Might you be confused like I might have been, but was Owner59 trying to say the this was all George's fault because he decided to try and find out what someone who was walking around inside a gated-community, in the rain, at night, what they were doing there?

So when did he do that? Stalking somebody after being told to knock it off and then shooting them when they got the better of him in a fight after they asked wtf he thought he was doing doesn't really provide any information, does it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 438
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:45:52 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If George had stayed in/at his car, the boy would have made it home.
If Trayvon had stayed home, he would been home.

There would have been no incident.
There would have been no incident.


There is no denying that.
There is no denying that.




So now going to the store while black is a capital offence in your view?

Come on you have got to be reverse trolling admit it.

Just as much as trying to find out what someone walking around inside a gated community at night, in the rain, while white is in your view.

I'll admit to reverse trolling if you will.

Deal Or No Deal?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 439
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 2:48:17 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If George had stayed in/at his car, the boy would have made it home.
If Trayvon had stayed home, he would been home.

There would have been no incident.
There would have been no incident.


There is no denying that.
There is no denying that.




So now going to the store while black is a capital offence in your view?

Come on you have got to be reverse trolling admit it.

He didn't say black. Of course that means I just might go hungry tomorrow morning instead of heading out in a few to buy some bacon and eggs for in the morning.

Not only did I not say black, I did not say any of the rest of that gibberish either.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 440
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