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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:42:14 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

"Threat of force" == "entering Martin's Personal Safety Zone after putting him in fear for his life"


ROFLMAO

Can you please provide me with the legal definition under Florida law of "personal Safety Zone"?
Can you please tell me how a concealed weapon puts someone in fear of his life?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 661
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:42:25 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Us0Two

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Um, Zimmerman carried his weapons almost at all times, even while just walking his dog. It's not illegal to do so and I know many many gun enthusiasts who would say it is not reckless either. Oi.


One thing this case illustrates is the danger of doing that. If Zimmerman wasn't armed, Martin would be alive and there would be no murder trial in progress. Zimmerman would be living a normal life.


Wow, what a completely baseless speculation. The alternative to your fantasy. There would still be a trial. Martin would be charged with murder/attempted murder and Zimmerman would be dead or a vegetable.

Choosing to carry, and not be a victim, doesn't make you a criminal.

But choosing to be a wannbe cop going well outside what anyone with a brain would say is reasonable behavior while carrying a loaded firearm does make you very likely criminally liable for a death.


Speculation.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 662
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:45:47 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The real beauty of this is that by charging it the way she did, and not mentioning 776, Corey sets it up so that if Zimmerman wants 776 protection, HE needs to bring it up, and then he's going to have to testify. Once he's on the stand, all the holes in his story come out. ( If you're getting your head bashed in on concrete so bad you needed to kill the kid, why is the kid's body more than a body length away from the concrete ? )



that is a kinda interesting point, and before I answer I have a couple questions of my own.

1) was tray's body found to be at an angle to the concrete or parrallel to the sidewalk
2) did the bullet that kiled him pass completly threw his body or lodge inside his body and what calliber was the bullet/gun

does anyone have this info?

reason I ask is, is it possible that they were positioned at a right angle to the sidewalk, most of thier bodies on the grass with zims head over the edge of the concrete, with tray on top zim fires upwards into trays body and the force of the shot lifts and carries him back and away a few feet?


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 663
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:48:47 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

MAYBE not if the NRA and red necked Republicans had not derailed better background checks.


As a matter of opinion Zimmerman probably passed a background check to buy his firearm.
As a matter of fact Zimmerman passed a more stringent background check to get his CCW.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 664
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:49:53 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The legal standard isn't AGGRESSOR... Since George PROVOKED the incident ( e.g.: If George never left his car.... ) and didn't exhaust every avenue of retreat, it isn't under Florida Law self defense.

Remember, Black kids have a REASONABLE FEAR for their safety when being chased by a Crazy Ass Cracker who -- while he might have a gun -- doesn't have a badge.


No evidence exists of George legally provoking the encounter.

No evidence exists that he didn't, either.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 665
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:52:12 PM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

No evidence exists of George legally provoking the encounter.

No evidence exists that he didn't, either.


cept the burdon of proof is on the prosecution not zimmerman!

he doesn't need to produce evidence he DIDN'T...

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 666
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:52:27 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The legal standard isn't AGGRESSOR... Since George PROVOKED the incident ( e.g.: If George never left his car.... ) and didn't exhaust every avenue of retreat, it isn't under Florida Law self defense.

Remember, Black kids have a REASONABLE FEAR for their safety when being chased by a Crazy Ass Cracker who -- while he might have a gun -- doesn't have a badge.


No evidence exists of George legally provoking the encounter.

No evidence exists that he didn't, either.


Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 667
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:55:23 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		So moon if there is no evidence either way about who the aggressor was... how do you convict someone of murder? Serious business 2nd degree in the US... what if the man is telling the truth? Which is more important protecting the innocent or convicting the guilty when there is doubt and lack of evidence

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/30/2013 12:58:34 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 668
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 12:55:42 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Who knows what evidence the prosecution has to offer... lets wait and hear.


They've already taken their best shots.
They missed. (Zimmerman didn't).

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 669
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:26:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Martin has no claim to self defense; he is not on trial.

That point has come up a couple of times in this thread.

Literally, it's obviously true.

But isn't Martin essentially being tried in absentia for being a thug, potential robber, potential drug user/dealer,* assailant--and, of course, a mortal threat to Zimmerman?

*It was helpfully pointed out earlier in the thread that Skittles can be used to make drugs (meth, I think).

Yes it was pointed out and I repeat what I said at that time, not relevant, to elaborate Zimmerman wouldn't have that knowledge even if that had been the intent.
No Martin isn't being tried. On the other had can you see a claim of
It was obvious that he had never done anything wrong in his life and was only trying to help me so I had to kill him? His actions which caused the shooting, not matter what the motivation, has to be highlighted by the defense.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 670
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:29:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't know... I don't think they have gotten to any forensic evidence yet have they? It should be a big part of this.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 671
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:29:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I have a special sympathy for those jurors, having done a murder case myself.

Anyone know why there are only six?

Cause that's the norm in Florida.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 672
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:33:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am going to ask a question to everyone that has posted anything on this topic. Please give honest answers.

If you are walking alone at night, in the ran, on the way home from buying a package of skittles and doing nothing that could be construed as criminal, and you notice someone following you, just what the hell are you gonna do?

First, if I lose them as Martin did that's the end. If I make a phone call it would be to 911 and not my girlfriend( this indicates he wasn't real worried. ) Talk (with hand on gun IN POCKET)
Don't respond to his first statement with violence.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 673
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:37:59 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There we have it, Zimmerman is innocent because a teenager was stupid.

yes but if the cops had arrived while he was beating Zimmerman I would be defending him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 674
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:41:08 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with this if that's how it went down, but there isn't any proof of who threw the first punch.


Proof perhaps not but there is plenty of evidence that Martin did and no evidence that Zimmerman ever threw a punch.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 675
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:43:22 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Believe me I am not defending this man... Or the law that enabled him. But so far I just cannot see where there is enough evidence to convict him.

If I were Martins parents and Zimmerman was quitted I would pursue him in civil court where there may be enough evidence...even though it would be little solace. And it is a shame they could not sue the State of Florida the real culprits in this tragedy.

Butch

The Martins have already won a SEVEN FIGURE (>$1M) wrongful death suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes' Home Owner's Association. If I were the HOA and Zimmerman is acquitted, which it looks like he should be given the prosecution's total lack of evidence against him, I'd sue the Martins to recoup whatever they got under false pretenses. I'd also sue Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC for TEN FIGURES (>$1B) for creating and exacerbating the racially-charged environment which eventually caused charges to filed against Zimmerman at the behest of who knows who (IMHO Holder or Obama) 45 days after the police had determined (from evidence and witnesses) he had not committed a crime. And it is a shame he could not sue the Federal Government, specifically Holder or Obama, the real culprits in this racially driven tragedy.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 676
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:43:38 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The legal standard isn't AGGRESSOR... Since George PROVOKED the incident ( e.g.: If George never left his car.... ) and didn't exhaust every avenue of retreat, it isn't under Florida Law self defense.

Remember, Black kids have a REASONABLE FEAR for their safety when being chased by a Crazy Ass Cracker who -- while he might have a gun -- doesn't have a badge.


No evidence exists of George legally provoking the encounter.


Interesting racism, there. So, a white person, walking down a street, being followed by a black teenager can turn the street into a free-fire zone because they have a "reasonable fear" too?

Racist thinking is racist, I don't care which side of the coin one is trying to promote.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


If there was any historical context of the KKK lynching white kids ( who aren't jews, I guess ) then please share it.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 677
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:45:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Um, Zimmerman carried his weapons almost at all times, even while just walking his dog. It's not illegal to do so and I know many many gun enthusiasts who would say it is not reckless either. Oi.


One thing this case illustrates is the danger of doing that. If Zimmerman wasn't armed, Martin would be alive and there would be no murder trial in progress. Zimmerman would be living a normal life.

Based on the one of two assumptions.
A. the incident would not have occurred.
B. That Martin being such a nice guy would have quit bashing before any real harm was done,

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 678
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:50:34 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So moon if there is no evidence either way about who the aggressor was... how do you convict someone of murder? Serious business 2nd degree in the US... what if the man is telling the truth? Which is more important protecting the innocent or convicting the guilty when there is doubt and lack of evidence

Butch

Oliver Wendell Holmes " better that 10 guilty go free than one innocent convicted"
In case you don't know he was Chief Justice of the U S Supreme Court.
On the other hand he was in the GF's words "a cracker"

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 679
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/30/2013 1:56:00 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

MAYBE not if the NRA and red necked Republicans had not derailed better background checks.


As a matter of opinion Zimmerman probably passed a background check to buy his firearm.
As a matter of fact Zimmerman passed a more stringent background check to get his CCW.

As a matter of FACT Zimmerman had to submit to a stringent background check when he applied for his CCW.
As a matter of FACT Obama did not have to submit to any background check when he applied for his current job.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 680
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