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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/5/2013 10:53:15 PM   
tazzygirl


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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 12:14:22 AM   
Dunamis2009


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Joined: 7/9/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

3. They were dressed in street clothes, jumping on their hood, trying to break out their windows, and one even pulled a gun on the unarmed girls.


Undercover cops are often dressed in street clothes.

The hood part we only have her side.

Breaking out their windows... I saw the girl say that, and then say they were knocking... then banging... then back to knocking... which is it?

Gun... the girl said the gun was pulled... the officers said the gun was made ready, which means from the harness, but not pointed at anyone.

Her story has changed a few times.


Even if her story is changing a bit, I think we know that she had the belief that the person making the arrest had the intent of victimizing the defendant (as evidenced by the 911 call). I think this is pretty obviously a reasonable belief with some of the obvious facts of the case- it was night, the agents were undercover, and they appeared threatening when she attempted to comply with their orders. Sure, the rest of her story might provide even more reason that she had this particular belief, but it's in excess- I don't think anything else really matters in the case, including the agents' side of the story, nor would anything change if she *had* hurt one of the agents.

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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 12:17:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im not arguing with her beliefs, or how she felt, or what she felt, or how she took the situation. Try figuring out what my real position is here. A hint, its not ganging up on the girl. I agree with the prosecutor, from her ordeal I am sure she learned her lesson.. and well.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 203
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 12:26:16 AM   
Dunamis2009


Posts: 44
Joined: 7/9/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not arguing with her beliefs, or how she felt, or what she felt, or how she took the situation. Try figuring out what my real position is here. A hint, its not ganging up on the girl. I agree with the prosecutor, from her ordeal I am sure she learned her lesson.. and well.


Hey, I thought you were attempting to counter defiantbadgirl's post, disagreeing with the reasonableness of the belief because her story was iffy.
I think that it's pretty open and shut with only evidence from the agents' testimony.

Edit: Along with the 911 call log.

< Message edited by Dunamis2009 -- 7/6/2013 12:53:26 AM >

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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 12:36:11 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Well, your link is broke.

My point all along is that we had only one side of the story, which was a pretty bad story. Its come out that it wasnt exactly as the girl has claimed, by their own words. I know I have stated this before, and I will state it again.

There is her story, the agents' stories..and somewhere in between is the truth. But demanding the firing of these officers' based upon the girl's statements, which have turned out to not be all that factual, has been my complaint all along.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 205
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 1:02:07 AM   
Dunamis2009


Posts: 44
Joined: 7/9/2012
Status: offline 		I must've missed that, and I agree. :-)
Fixed the link, too.

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Profile   Post #: 206
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 1:04:48 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Dunamis2009)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 5:37:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Did they?

If they had, someone buying a case of water would be dead or badly wounded.

Remember the argument that you do not have to suffer any injury to be legally in fear for your life.

My point is that if a firearm is out of the holster, whether or not the owner has obtained a sight picture, you have good reason to fear for your life because of the speed at which that situation can change. Someone who is well trained can do it in a quarter second or less.

These 7 officers somehow forgot the "Rule of P's" and now, they have a black mark on their department.

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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 8:49:36 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Bullshit. Pure TV fueled, keyboard commando bullshit. 'Magic bullets' that go around corners etc. level hysterical bullshit.

A gun merely out of its holster is not automatically legally defined as a clear and imminent danger of death, and does not automatically justify lethal force.

That's why every academy in the nation teaches HC and LC, which if the legal experts pontificating here weren't simply pulling their expertise out of their rears, they would have known.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Remember the argument that you do not have to suffer any injury to be legally in fear for your life.

My point is that if a firearm is out of the holster, whether or not the owner has obtained a sight picture, you have good reason to fear for your life because of the speed at which that situation can change. Someone who is well trained can do it in a quarter second or less.

These 7 officers somehow forgot the "Rule of P's" and now, they have a black mark on their department.



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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/6/2013 11:38:42 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Bullshit. Pure TV fueled, keyboard commando bullshit. 'Magic bullets' that go around corners etc. level hysterical bullshit.

A gun merely out of its holster is not automatically legally defined as a clear and imminent danger of death, and does not automatically justify lethal force.

That's why every academy in the nation teaches HC and LC, which if the legal experts pontificating here weren't simply pulling their expertise out of their rears, they would have known.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Remember the argument that you do not have to suffer any injury to be legally in fear for your life.

My point is that if a firearm is out of the holster, whether or not the owner has obtained a sight picture, you have good reason to fear for your life because of the speed at which that situation can change. Someone who is well trained can do it in a quarter second or less.

These 7 officers somehow forgot the "Rule of P's" and now, they have a black mark on their department.



Nice strawman. I never said it justified lethal force. I said it justified getting the hell out of dodge.

I'll take 4th grade reading comprehension Jeff.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 210
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 2:56:23 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		by the way if someone still interested:

Virginia's alcohol agency alters undercover operations

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 9:51:58 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

by the way if someone still interested:

Virginia's alcohol agency alters undercover operations

It looks like they realize they fucked up and are changing their practices accordingly.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 4:43:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not arguing with her beliefs, or how she felt, or what she felt, or how she took the situation. Try figuring out what my real position is here. A hint, its not ganging up on the girl. I agree with the prosecutor, from her ordeal I am sure she learned her lesson.. and well.



What lesson did she learn?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 4:44:25 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.




When have I ever asked anyone to sugar coat anything?
Have you got an answer?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 4:44:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its in one of the links I posted.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 4:48:19 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not arguing with her beliefs, or how she felt, or what she felt, or how she took the situation. Try figuring out what my real position is here. A hint, its not ganging up on the girl. I agree with the prosecutor, from her ordeal I am sure she learned her lesson.. and well.



What lesson did she learn?


Apparently, not to buy water.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 4:48:45 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

3. They were dressed in street clothes, jumping on their hood, trying to break out their windows, and one even pulled a gun on the unarmed girls.


Undercover cops are often dressed in street clothes.

The hood part we only have her side.

Breaking out their windows... I saw the girl say that, and then say they were knocking... then banging... then back to knocking... which is it?

Gun... the girl said the gun was pulled... the officers said the gun was made ready, which means from the harness, but not pointed at anyone.

Her story has changed a few times.


Someone in plane clothes has a gun in their hand at ten pm and that person and six others are demanding I get out of my car. Me and my car are leaving and if that punkassmotherfucker or any of his punkassmotherfucking friends are in front of my car they will be under it post haste .

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 5:12:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Look for the link.

Damn, people need fucking hand holding around here. Always someone not bothering to find out for themselves and demanding fucking prove this and prove that.

I posted the fucking link. If you cant find it, dont get pissy at me. Its not my damn fault people cant, or wont, bother to fucking read instead of jumping at knee jerk assessments based upon half stories and stupidity.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 5:24:38 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not arguing with her beliefs, or how she felt, or what she felt, or how she took the situation. Try figuring out what my real position is here. A hint, its not ganging up on the girl. I agree with the prosecutor, from her ordeal I am sure she learned her lesson.. and well.



What lesson did she learn?

She learned the same thing that a lot of us learned at a young age.

Don't trust the police.

The vast majority of them are good trustworthy people.
The rest are thugs with badges and/or idiots. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the majority protects the thugs.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 7/7/2013 5:26:26 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: psycho agents terrify college students - 7/7/2013 5:30:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Look for the link.

Damn, people need fucking hand holding around here. Always someone not bothering to find out for themselves and demanding fucking prove this and prove that.

I posted the fucking link. If you cant find it, dont get pissy at me. Its not my damn fault people cant, or wont, bother to fucking read instead of jumping at knee jerk assessments based upon half stories and stupidity.


The link you posted says the same thing you said...

"If there is any lesson for her to have learned,under the circumstances,there is no reason to believe she has not already learned it with crystal clarity."

My question stands unanswered "what lesson did she learn with crystal clarity?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/7/2013 5:31:29 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 220
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