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Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 3:42:57 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats ratcheted up their election-year push for an increase in the federal minimum wage on Tuesday by promising to block a congressional pay hike unless some of the lowest-paid hourly workers get their first raise in nearly a decade.

link to yahoo.com news story here
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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 4:38:12 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I'm a Republican and I have no problem raising the minimum wage up to $10 right now!
We really do need to start cleaning out all the illegal aliens from this country.
There are plenty of stories of unscrupulous businesses and individuals hiring illegals (Which is a Federal Felony) at under the minumum wage hurting working class people.
Also, those businesses and individuals who are hiring them need to do some serious jail time.
This is hurting working people all over the country!

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 4:43:27 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Here are some lovely statistics to ponder as well:

  • ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION, the federal minimum wage has fallen 42% since its peak in 1968.


  • IF THE $5.15 HOURLY minimum wage had risen at the same rate as CEO compensation since 1990, it would now stand at $23.03.


  • A MINIMUM WAGE employee who works 40 hours a week for 51 weeks a year goes home with $10,506 before taxes.


  • SUCH A WORKER would take 7,000 years to earn Oracle CEO Larry Ellison's yearly compensation.


< Message edited by puella -- 6/27/2006 4:44:37 PM >

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 5:12:59 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		*waves to puella*
 
I think the minimum wage definitely needs a boost; use tax breaks if need be to help the small business owner adjust.
 
Few things on god's green earth piss me off more than the bastards in congress giving themselves raise after raise while for all intent and purpose telling low wage earners to hug their nuts.

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 5:26:17 PM   
puella


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Status: offline 		Oh hell yes... congress has no right giving itself a pay raise while people are slaving away on wages that can not support the meanest of lifestyles, let alone a family. 

And to add to that I think that I would rather see minimum wage raised and Paris Hilton having to pay tax on the money she will inherit which has not yet been taxed (death tax indeed) than have her go buy a nice new Prada bag and a doggie mansion in the style of Versailles for her pooch than a family of four scraping by on (if both parents work for minimum wage) what will amount to about 18 grand a year after taxes.. now... if both are working... what do they use to pay for childcare?  hmmmm... better get rid of all those social services while we are at it.. those blood sucking poor people have no shame!

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 5:31:55 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
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From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I am not going to say that it wouldn't be nice to have the minimum wage raised.  And I am going to say that the salaries for Congress and the retirement packages that are billed to the American taxpayer truly make Me see red. 
However, I would like to add that I am in Arizona, which is one of the states notorious for low wages.  The article states that approximately 7million Americans are paid at minimum wage.  A guesstimate would be approximately 5 - 7% of the working population?  My own daughter, who is a college student on scholarship works (full time) in a field which is considered low paying and she makes well over minimum wage.  Taco Bell and other fast food restaurants all offer at least $7 or $8 per hour to start.  That is the high schoolers, for the most part.  Working one's way up to management in the fast food industry, even with nothing but a high school diploma will afford benefits and a reasonable lifestyle.  Sure, I would love more income, but I am not hurting and I am willing to bet I have a lot less income than most of the people on these boards.  It's all in how you handle your money (most of the time).
Finally, (remember, I live in Arizona), all the illegals who hang out at the day labor stations or the home depots do not get on a bus for less than $10 per hour.  So the argument about "cheap labor" holds no water for Me.  Those unwelcome poachers are, in fact, making more per hour than My daughter.
**Quietly carries soap box off into the horizon**

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 6:12:54 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I personally don't see any point in a minimum wage. Let's say they raise it to 10.00 bucks. Well, Wal-Mart, K-Mart,Sears,Taco Bell, etc... look at the books as all businesses will, and either are going to raise prices(most likely), or reduce staffing. Money just doesn't fall out of the air, and business will adjust something to remain in the same profitable positions. Level offered a solution lower business taxes, I'd say  lower taxes all around though. Encourages more business, let's people keep more of their earned wages, and increases competition for the available labor pool. But just raising the minimum wage does nothing, but cause a ripple effect until inflation catches up to the new wage levels. 

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 6:24:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, if they raise it high enough, that the wastrels up ladder have to start depressing their wages to more reasonable levels because the business cannot run with the reduced staffing, and people won't buy there with the added prices...

How can it be that crude is 70 bucks a barrel, gas around  3.50 because of 'high crude' and petroleum companies are making record profits and handing out bonuses to upper management like dildoes at a home interior party, and telling the labor that they are cutting a fat hog in the ass cause they are reaping some overtime that the government snatches .................

Just how can that possibly be true?   How is it that our  healthcare costs are skyrocketing and nobody is making a dime?  Remember the days that the Japanese were killing us on quality (and still are) and selling cars for less than we could?  Oh, the japanese worker makes less money.....my dying ass, a japanese auto worker makes considerably more than an american auto worker.

How is it that Japan can come here and buy scrap metal from us, coking coal from ceylon, coal from south africa, not having a natural resource of their own, haul it  out to sea on ships and sell it back to us, cheaper than we can produce it?

Nope, minimum wage can stand to raise for the entire middle class, significantly.




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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 6:24:49 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		"Encouraging more business", very important, Need, I agree. Go through the tax code and things like the OSHA regulations, get rid of the soul-numbing amount of crap, and watch our economy really hum.

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 6:43:21 PM   
puella


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Status: offline 		Actually, in all the states where the minimum wage has been raised to a livable level, the economy has prospered far more than those which have not.

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 8:27:31 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Actually, in all the states where the minimum wage has been raised to a livable level, the economy has prospered far more than those which have not.


If that is true I'd like to see some form of legitimate report stating such and why that apparent paradox occured. Like were those state economies healthier before the minimum wage increase, or if state tax rates had anything to with it, etc....  I'm all for changing my position, if confronted with information to the contrary. But it seems counter-intuitive that business would thrive with more expenses than less. You may be right, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never read anything indicating as much.

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 8:41:08 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think we should set an educational standard on minimum wages. It might encourage more people to graduate high school.

Without a H.S. Diploma, the minimum wage should stay at $5.15/hr. With an H.S. Diploma, the minimum wage should be atleast $7.15/hr. After all, shouldn't a diploma account for something? 

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 8:59:14 PM   
MstrDouglas


Posts: 75
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with both popeye1250 and with FangsNfeet.  It really needs to be at least $10.00 per hour, but having it tied to a HS diploma is a good idea also.  If you dont have one then make it $7.15 an hour.  Lets get serious about this subject, there are a lot of people out there trying to start or support a family and minimum wage is all they can get.  Even at $10.00 an hour that is hard, voice of experience talking here.  But then again this is JUST my opinion, feel free to "flame me" if you disagree. 

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 9:21:32 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Again I take a slightly tangental stance to the thread, but that's me.

It is supply and demand, but the goverment has favored exploitation, by fostering overpopulation and encouraging the export of jobs. The establishment of a minimum wage decades ago was brought about by people who saw this and wanted to do something about it, but they are gone now. This is why you do not see this issue move much.

For example, even in the early 80s, there were fast food restaraunts offering near double the minumum wage as a starting point. This was an area where there was almost no unemployment. The supply was low so the demand upped the ante.This was decades ago and they, offering $8 an hour to start, were paying entry level employees almost what general managers made in major markets, i.e., places with a "healthy" level of unemployment.

In a state with 11 million people, there are probably less than 100 who can do my job. The deal is, I take home $20 an hour, no matter what it takes, my actual net pay will be $20 per hour. Now if I were not in this profession, I would not make that. Wages are very depressed. It used to be if you worked for Ford or Chevy the bank loved you, no more. Actually that is coming back, because if you are still there at this point in history you are pretty damstable.

Actually on LMU, the Pinkerton thread has turned to this, the education. Minimum wage jobs are for kids dammit. They won't teach properly because if they did, more people would be creative and intelligent. When people like this can't get a job they pretty much start businesses of their own, but they might not know math nowadays.

While I am not against a minimum wage per se, it's necessity is something I see as wrong.

T

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 9:42:36 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Starting a family while you're on minimum wage is ones own fault and lack of responsibility. After High School, there are many 2-6 month certification programs that can help people go well beyond minum wage. Pharmacy Tech, EMT, Massage Therapist, Nutritional Consultant, Para Legal, Software Tech, Medical Assistant, etc.. etc.. etc....

Minimum wage is a start for you to pick up and move on the better things. It's not there to support a family. Minimum wage is there for the kids so they can begin to learn about making and spending money.   

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 10:28:35 PM   
BlackGlitter


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		Even if they raise the minimum wage to astronomical standings, businesses will just raise their prices, lay people off, et cetera. Cost of living in general goes up when wages go up.

And while your paycheck might have more numbers inked in, so will your bills come time to pay them.

*Shrug*

As a low-middle-class waged person, I haven't found it to be any different, regardless of what the wages are sitting at.


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RE: Minimum wage - 6/27/2006 11:59:07 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Raising the minimum wage is needed. But it has to be done in conjunction with other laws and standards also being bettered. Otherwise, as some have stated, business will negate the benifit.
Off shoring jobs and letting illegal aliens work for substandard wages. Continuing to decrease taxes for the wrong people and corporations. Will likely lead to a minimum wage increase being swallowed up shortly after it is instituted.
The vast majority of folks continue to let gutless politicians cut out the ground from beneath them.

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RE: Minimum wage - 6/28/2006 12:30:38 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Minimum wage is only a fraction of the Battle. 
Even at 10 dollars an hour there are places that wage will not cover cost of living.
But at 10 dollars an hour that person is over the scale where they can get assistance.

Fang, your partically right, family's shouldnt be started without forethought, yet
many of us find ourselves back at square one for other reason's with family in tow.
Then what?


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RE: Minimum wage - 6/28/2006 12:37:47 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

 And I am going to say that the salaries for Congress and the retirement packages that are billed to the American taxpayer truly make Me see red. 


OMG!!  I'm glad this didn't go unmentioned. It's not just their wage and compensation packages that come into play, but the fringe benefits are absolutely unreal – And they are commonly referred to as ''servants of the people'' - HA! – More baloney.

There's a whole line of thinking which says :  We have to pay them well in order to attract highly qualified people. Well.... if you look at the current state of affairs, you're then aware that this ''train of thought'' is nothing more than gibberish. And that has nothing to do with terrorism, Iraq or Iran.

It's my bet that even if the job of Senator paid only ''ten dollars'' a year with zero benefits, you'd still have these guys lined up in each state willing to spend ten , twenty, thirty-million dollars of their own money in order to hold that position.

quote:

If that is true I'd like to see some form of legitimate report stating such and why that apparent paradox occured. Like were those state economies healthier before the minimum wage increase, or if state tax rates had anything to with it, etc....  I'm all for changing my position, if confronted with information to the contrary. But it seems counter-intuitive that business would thrive with more expenses than less. You may be right, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never read anything indicating as much.


 Amen. Good post. This is exactly what would happen: Increased operating expenditures are always passed on to the ''purchaser of goods sold''

The key to the whole thing is getting rid of the illegal aliens who ''suppress'' wages and make the pyramid scheme work. Without them, the corporations who need them the most hold no bargaining power. And then the pressure would be put back on the government to decrease regulations and operate in a more efficient manner.




 - R

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"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: Minimum wage - 6/28/2006 1:34:21 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

If that is true I'd like to see some form of legitimate report stating such and why that apparent paradox occured. Like were those state economies healthier before the minimum wage increase, or if state tax rates had anything to with it, etc....  I'm all for changing my position, if confronted with information to the contrary. But it seems counter-intuitive that business would thrive with more expenses than less. You may be right, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never read anything indicating as much.



It's strange how the poor need flogging to get a day's work out of them and the rich needs incentives to make them work.  Readjusting the wage scale doesn't necessarily mean increasing costs of a business, it means a fairer and more harmonius society. (there has been many reports on this)

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