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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 7:45:54 AM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Oh goodness, the same thing happens to me all the time! We spend time chatting and getting to know one another and things are going really well and so then we meet. They like my eyes, they like my lips, they really like my hair and want to touch it and they think I look much younger than my real age… but what they really like is my boobies. They will sit and stare, their mouths dropping open and all they can do is drool. I find a way to get their attention… they really ought to look into my eyes, I am really serious about this. I will give them one moment of stupidity and then we need to get on with it.

As if in a slow motion edit of real life, these suckers will look up, their eyes glazed over, trying to wipe drool off their chin. I ask them if they heard what I said and flash them a smile.

OMG, their eyes get big, their mouth falls open, as they are quickly standing, leaving everything on the table, as they run like they have seen every monster, in every horror flick. I just don’t get it… I asked if they wanted a blow job under the table… what could be wrong with that? They are going to let the need for a little dental work scare them off?

I just go home to my mobile home and watch Jerry Springer.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 10:41:34 AM   
AWingedGuardian


Posts: 22
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

Issues I would like input on:

Is this just a MALE sub thing?
Is this all illusion?
Is being human first & kinky as one part of ourselves just me?




I would have to say that it may be a male only type of mentality. Though I suppose that is based upon the fact that I can only vouch for being male. I believe that it could be considered rather similar to a teenager going through their "phases", and their lack of commitment to a particular idea or style. As such when these subs show up, it's no longer a fantasy and they are faced with the opportunity to submit to not only someone else, but a woman. One might state that social stigmas or stereotypes can immediately flash into perspective and cause their conviction to waver. "I'm a lesser man if I enjoy this, I can't allow that" despite the fact that all they have to do is get over their sense of egoistic views and jump a little outside the comfort zone.

Perhaps they believe they are going from point A to point Z; coffee house to licking your boots nude, without so much as a thought for themselves about their life prior to that. Granted it doesn't occur that way, but then again first time jitters aren't uncommon. It sounds as though they hadn't mentally made the commitment yet, and that a repeated social meeting to do a face-to-face may be more effective. Still, that is a good deal of effort to keep chasing them down -- let alone not your job.

If you are asking if this is all illusion in regards to the fact that you're feeling disheartened in your search? I'd have to say that just like anything else, there is a good deal of "grey zone". That is, you have many who are straddling the fence on how they feel, what they want, and they fall into that designated zone. There are many out there, though it seems as if you've run into a bit of a patch of bad luck. Afterall, submission is in turn up to the submissive since they make the choice to submit rather than coercion. Sure you can coax them, but you can't force them. If they don't want to because they don't know themselves as much as they believed? Well that isn't exactly on you.

As for whether or not it's normal to be human first, kink second? I'd hope that is a rhetorical question. I say this because we can't necessarily meet up with someone face-to-face for the first time and hope they'll start whipping us in order to satisfy our masochism, for example. Such a belief is not only naive, it's rather dangerous and if they were expecting that of you? Well then they need not only some educating, but some time to grow as well.

While it is not my place to apologize for them, I will say that I wish you luck in your search. That gem is just waiting to be found.


[On that note, reading back I realize how preachy this comes across. I will apologize for that, as I understand how annoying it can be. However, it is what it is and those were not my intentions. Oh well.]

< Message edited by AWingedGuardian -- 7/8/2013 10:42:43 AM >

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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 12:47:28 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Holy crap never have had someone read one of my posts & make every possible misconception about me & try to list it as fact before?? Sure you aren't my little admirer trying to make excuses?? Certainly enough bizarre logic here to justify the thought...holy WOW!! My high horse shits on your logic


Actually, she asked quite a few questions, many of which were very good ones that could help give you insight, unless what you are really interested in is commiserating about "flaky male subs."

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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 1:23:16 PM   
SwitchNSpanky


Posts: 418
Joined: 5/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

Well it has happened again...potential sub comes across my path. We talk by email, we talk by phone, we meet in person then poof "this lifestyle isn't for them" (usually during or soon after discussion of checklist). To explain, I make note of but do not respond to particular kinks or fetishes they list in the first 10 emails, do not participate in phone sex & show up at the coffee house in clothes designed to blend.
First question is, are male subs the only ones flakier than a buttermilk biscuit? Is it a volume thing, so many of them so few of us that men obsessing over the idea of kink makes them insane when they may achieve their goal of having a dominant?

Or is it that meeting a potential sub as a human being instead of the porn fictionalized version of a dominant: leather dress, stiletto heels & a whip for the local starbucks the problem? Is it ok for us to be humans first & kinky second?
--color me confused--


With all due respect. It might not be anything that's about them or about something being wrong with them. It could be you. You could have something wrong with you that drives these well vetted subs from your presence. I've heard it said male subs outnumber female Doms on here 100/1. You should have your pick of the litter. And those subs should be starved for your attention.

So, ask yourself what your doing to make these folks run?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 10:08:05 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Domme or submissive, if you have a genuine interest in someone you take time to find out about them, you look forward to hearing from them, vanilla or otherwise.

See this seems to best explain what the judgementals don't want to hear. I wasn't looking for a sub!!! Much like bambi in the woods an out of state 22 year old potential crosses my path & even with a full schedule i go what the hell let's kick the tires & find myself the judgementals poster child for bad dominance.

Please tell me what exactly am supposed to do with a sub in town only 2 weeks to decide if they even want to move here. Mental health issues I'm unfamiliar with that runs for the hills at the prospect of discussing a checklist?!?

I'm not having sex with a person I just met. I'm not inviting a stranger to my living room for a beating when limits haven't been discussed. If all this makes me a bad Domme then Hoo fuckin RAH I will do it every time (possibly with the same result). I would rather lose the unwilling & logistically complicated within a week than invest months or years in a relationship headed no-where.

The reality is me, what kind of slut I'm not or how good or bad my dominance is...IS IRRELEVANT!!! He wasn't mine to dominate yet!

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 7/8/2013 10:12:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/8/2013 10:19:35 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Didn't progress past 2nd paragraph where I was taken completely out of context & prieced at in regards to the exact opposite of the statement I had made.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Holy crap never have had someone read one of my posts & make every possible misconception about me & try to list it as fact before?? Sure you aren't my little admirer trying to make excuses?? Certainly enough bizarre logic here to justify the thought...holy WOW!! My high horse shits on your logic


Actually, she asked quite a few questions, many of which were very good ones that could help give you insight, unless what you are really interested in is commiserating about "flaky male subs."



_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/9/2013 6:37:31 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Lol, watches the hole get deeper and deeper.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/9/2013 9:58:16 AM   
MsEloquence


Posts: 72
Joined: 5/7/2013
Status: offline 		Fast reply:

TheRose4U: as presented your op read as "I met a guy, and like most of them, he disappeared after our first meeting."

Some people responded to the part that indicated you encounter this a lot; and those folks suggested you examine yourself.
I read your op as a question about why men might be so wrapped up in fantasy trappings they couldn't perceive women as people.

But here's the thing: while I'm sure lots of people are so hung up on fantasy that reality won't suit them, if you find a lot like this, maybe your screening methods are off.

As far as the specific guy is concerned, picking a green kid leaving everything he knows seems a recipe for disaster

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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/9/2013 10:19:43 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

I wasn't looking for a sub!!!



and then from the original post:
"Well it has happened again...potential sub comes across my path. We talk by email, we talk by phone, we meet in person then poof "this lifestyle isn't for them"
and then again:
"Or is it that meeting a potential sub"..........

If you're not looking for a sub, then why on earth are we talking about a potential sub... why are you referring to this guy as potential sub? And here you are having all these frustrated question because it turned out "AGAIN" that you were disappointed or rejected for whatever reason.

So to answer your questions...

1. Clearly male subs are not the only ones flakier than a buttermilk biscuit. Yes, your confusion is apparent because you can't decide if he is/isn't a potential sub.
2. Yes it's ok to meet someone at Starbucks in vanilla clothes. If the potential sub you're meeting is surprised by this, clearly you haven't communicated enough prior to the meet.
3. Yes it's ok to be human first and kinky second. The opposite of your profile, actually.

Good luck.

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What you permit, you promote.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/9/2013 2:28:09 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SwitchNSpanky
With all due respect. It might not be anything that's about them or about something being wrong with them. It could be you. You could have something wrong with you that drives these well vetted subs from your presence. I've heard it said male subs outnumber female Doms on here 100/1. You should have your pick of the litter. And those subs should be starved for your attention.

So, ask yourself what your doing to make these folks run?


It might be her, but it could easily just be them. I've met an awful lot of people in this "lifestyle" that don't seem to have much of a grasp on how healthy relationships work, or just generally how to manage their shit. I think it's more likely that she's just not very good at weeding out people that aren't sincerely looking for a D/s relationship with realistic expectations of what that entails.

(in reply to SwitchNSpanky)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/10/2013 12:19:40 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline 		Briefly : if I have trouble finding a person behind those Foster Grants... whoa! That's ....hmmmm. "Cause for concern if not alarm".

So, I guess I'm saying I see it the other way.

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simul justus et peccator
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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/11/2013 2:37:33 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

If a male sub wrote this type of post, the overwhelming response would be "Would you like some cheese with that wine?"

Just pointing out so everyone can maybe have a little perspective. I'm guilty of those knee-jerk reactions as well but I am consciously trying to treat every sub as a man with a clean slate, not colored by what subs in the past have done.

Akasha

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(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/11/2013 2:43:23 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That's me in the corner;
that's me in the spot light;
ruining my illusion...


MasterREM

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/11/2013 4:44:22 PM   
Damacis


Posts: 45
Joined: 7/27/2011
Status: offline 		Not going to bother with the enormous amount of judgmentalism and stereotyping in this thread that is ubiquitous throughout most of these forums, however I will respond to a few questions:
quote:

Are we allowed to be humans first with a kinky side?

Expecting a woman to be in leather and heels and barking out orders 24/7 is high fantasy. I wouldn't bother to connect with a woman even pretending to carry on such a notion. Nor, I suspect, would most reasonable men.
quote:


Is dressing to blend at a coffee shop really this mentally damaging to the sub psyche?

What should I be expecting you to wear? Sitting in a public coffee shop, people all around me, with a woman dressed like she stepped out of a porn scene would be uncomfortable at best. Once I make it to the bedroom.. then we can start addressing "appropriate" clothes.
quote:

While I'm at it since men "taking" a sub on the first meeting was brought up, is this actually what male subs are hoping for?

As far as I am concerned, until anything goes down, we are just two people talking. Forget subs. I believe most reasonable people would agree. With that said, the fact this is happening to you again and again, should be rather disconcerting. As a seemingly genuine dominant female you have the absolute pick of the litter when it comes to who you choose to meet up with. The two best pieces of advice I came across in this thread are 1) Roche's, and 2) your screening process. After you exchange 20, or 50 messages with someone you should be able to discern whether he's a "reasonable person" or someone who's living in fantasyland. Once something happens 10 times in a row you have to start looking in the mirror. No offense meant.

That said, some people are really good liars and just want to get their personal kick from the idea of serving you but with no intention of going through with it. They want the whiff of sexuality but not the taste. As well as that, a D/s relationship is a big step out there. Sometimes things are incredibly erotic in your head but when it comes time to pay the piper some just can't make that jump.

< Message edited by Damacis -- 7/11/2013 4:46:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/16/2013 9:47:48 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I agree with Rochsub. When one person walks away from another after a courtship, it's usually about attraction or incompatibility.

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/16/2013 10:52:30 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

Well it has happened again...potential sub comes across my path. We talk by email, we talk by phone, we meet in person then poof "this lifestyle isn't for them" (usually during or soon after discussion of checklist). To explain, I make note of but do not respond to particular kinks or fetishes they list in the first 10 emails, do not participate in phone sex & show up at the coffee house in clothes designed to blend.
First question is, are male subs the only ones flakier than a buttermilk biscuit? Is it a volume thing, so many of them so few of us that men obsessing over the idea of kink makes them insane when they may achieve their goal of having a dominant?

Or is it that meeting a potential sub as a human being instead of the porn fictionalized version of a dominant: leather dress, stiletto heels & a whip for the local starbucks the problem? Is it ok for us to be humans first & kinky second?
--color me confused--



My experience is that email and phone conversations don't matter much. At best, they can rule out people who are obviously bad matches. But it doesn't start to get real until you sit eye to eye. So I don't believe in having expectations based on the buildup before the eye to eye moment.

Beyond that, I think that people -- both men and women -- are flaky. That's probably especially true in the BDSM realm where many people are tiptoeing into the water. But it happens in the vanilla realm too.

My philosophy is to try to meet quickly if there is a glimmer of interest. Go into the meeting being open and honest and expecting nothing. And take everything with a grain of salt.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/16/2013 11:18:27 PM   
splatterpunk


Posts: 119
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Or is it that meeting a potential sub as a human being instead of the porn fictionalized version of a dominant: leather dress, stiletto heels & a whip for the local starbucks the problem? Is it ok for us to be humans first & kinky second?
--color me confused--


they're flaking because it turns out they don't like you very much. :( i've done this to people and i've had it done to me and i know when somebody flakes like this it can make you feel lower than whale shit.

listen...when a person had a need that very few people are willing to meet--a sexual kink, for instance--and they meet someone who just might be willing and able to meet that need they will lie like crazy. lie to themselves, i mean, lie like a used car salesman on coke to themselves; and when you're lying to yourself you can't be honest with anyone else. if a sexual need is strong enough people tell themselves anything to make themselves believe that someone they think can meet it is a plausible partner.

this means that shit like insisting you're a person first, and insisting that first meetings take place someplace mundane and are totally devoid of anything interesting and fun just won't work. if a person's needs are strong enough, they will distort, distort, and distort. it's a total bummer and there is no quick and easy way around it. :(

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/17/2013 6:52:43 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It might be the old saying, "He's just not that into you."

All people - not just sub men - have a problem with telling someone they are not interested. In worrying that they may hurt feelings, using "I don't think I am interested in the lifestyle anymore," is a safe out.



This is what I said as well. But she just dismissed my theory without even giving it any thought. Instead, she simply said that she is "attractive".

What she failed to see is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What one person considers to be attractive may not be what another sees as attractive. And perhaps it wasn't her physical traits that drove him away. Maybe it was her personality. Or her age, since she's significantly older than him. There's no way of knowing for sure what it was, but there was something that he didn't like.

As I said in my original message, "flakes" tend to flake out before the first meeting. But when they go through the trouble of actually meeting and THEN flake out, it generally means that something else has happened. There was something about the person that they didn't like, but they don't want to hurt that person's feelings by telling them where the issue lies. So they simply disappear.

None of us know what really happened. But the fact that this has happened to the OP multiple times tells me that she is a part of the problem. Getting her to see or accept that seems to be the challenge.


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(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/17/2013 9:50:57 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss
It is a term that JeffBC uses...My preference is men who act dominant in everyday life...nothing to do with sex...

My vanillaness still reverberates around here?

Hi everyone!


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Ruining the illusion? - 7/18/2013 6:53:30 AM   
SpaceSpank


Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damacis

Expecting a woman to be in leather and heels and barking out orders 24/7 is high fantasy. I wouldn't bother to connect with a woman even pretending to carry on such a notion. Nor, I suspect, would most reasonable men.



I wish I could say I agree with this (and not just for men, but women as well)... but I have been appalled at how many seem to not stop and think about just that kind of thing.

I get the appeal of the fantasies, I really do... and they make for awesome fiction... but they don't make for awesome reality. Having that fantasy of being taken forcefully and locked away for use can get many a submissive hard/wet thinking about it... It's just like the books/movies/porn they were into! So it would be great, right! Well, sadly real live doesn't have narrative freedom to gloss over the days/weeks/years and make everything blend together into one big long string of happy play time.

I've heard the sentiment before, but when I was at the crucible the other night one of the staff said it again when talking to the group of first timers... "I'll do anything for you" really? I got some dishes you can wash and a yard to mow.

Many only think in terms of the fantasy, and what they want out of it. So it's not like they think of the kink in realistic terms, it's all about the fact that they have not, will not, or in some cases, cannot, think of it in any other way than the fantasy in their head.


(in reply to Damacis)
Profile   Post #: 80
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