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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:03:54 PM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It hasnt been proven he took "multiple head injuries"
[/quote
Photos prove he took multiple head injuries.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:12:43 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Even reasonable men/women have different opinions about that, so it boils down to the specific reasonable man/woman in that circumstance.

No. That's why the Reasonable Man Standard is called a standard. For instance if a guy named Jim, who is hopelessly delusional and a raving bigot of the worst kind, was involved in a fistfight with a man of color and shot him, his opinion would have no bearing on the matter. The standard that would be applied is what would a reasonable member of the community think in the same situation.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:13:20 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Listen to the 911 call Zimmerman made to the police.

I listened to that conversation. My conclusion is that Zimmerman is even more of a walk-over than I am. If one would blow at him, he would float away. That softie intending to murder someone? No way this side of the Moon!




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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:16:22 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Photos prove he took multiple head injuries.


Yep, and the defense has had two witnesses, one of them the tech that took the photos, point out each bump and mark.

There's, to name a few, the nose, punctate markings on his right temple, bumps on the back of his head, swelling on the left side of his head, two lacerations, the big U shaped red mark...

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/8/2013 2:21:19 PM >

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:18:50 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
If Zimmerman is convicted it will be because the jurors are afraid of causing race riots.

I wonder what the instruction of the judge will be?

Either: "Find him guilty, that we may prevent millions more dead due to race riots",
or: "Never mind the race riots. Just tell me whether you consider him guilty or not guilty".

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:20:43 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


So, did Trayvon come back? Possible, but that would seem unlikely.


Trayvon would have had to return to the T intersection, else the encounter never would have happened.

quote:


Bottom line remains: Zimmerman created the situation.


I disagree. Busting George's nose, then pinning him to the ground created the situation in which any reasonable person would fear imminent death or great bodily injury, justifying use of deadly force.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:27:03 PM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Florida law is such that if you were in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury, that lethal force is justified, and therefore are not guilty of manslaughter.


So... if I (were I living in Florida) wanted to get rid of someone (say a business or romantic rival) then all I have to do is provoke him into attacking me? Awesome!

Not really.

For me the bottom line remains: Zimmerman created the situation. Trayvon would not have felt a need to attack if Zimmerman had done what the police had told him and not followed him... or better yet, had not jumped to the racist conclusion that a young black man walking alone at night must be up to no good in the first place.

Zimmerman DID do what the 911 dispatcher told him to...he told the 911 dispatcher "Okay", stopped following Martin when he lost sight of Martin when Martin ran South at the "T", continued walking straight (East) on the walkway past the "T" to the end of the walkway where he called the police who told him to give them an address where they could meet him (he told them where his truck was), and was walking back (West) to his truck to meet the police when Martin appeared out of nowhere at the "T" and confronted him. According to Martin's 'girlfriend', Martin was almost home, 400 feet South of the "T", when he told he was being followed (a lie since he had just told her he had lost Zimmerman) by a "creepy ass cracker".

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:46:54 PM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I wonder whose blood some of our RW folks would be calling for if martin had killed Zim.

Let's see. Armed man gets out of a vehicle and follows unarmed person down a dark alley and the unarmed person (fearing for his life because the guy has a gun) manages to kill him with his hands.

Wanna bet they'd be howling for Martin's blood?

Let's see indeed. Unarmed teenager runs out sight of adult following them, calls 'girlfriend' instead of police and tells her he's scared to death of the "creepy ass cracker" following them (a lie because they had evaded their pursuer), runs/walks 400 feet to within spitting distance of where they live but instead of going inside, closing and locking the door and calling the police, turns around and backtracks that same 400 feet, verbally confronts the very same adult they supposedly were scared to death of, then sucker punches them breaking their nose and knocking them down, then straddles them and pummels their face and pounds their head on the concrete walkway, only to suffer the consequences of attacking an adult with a gun.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:52:13 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I also understood Travon was walking to the store to get Candy. Very sweet. I did that a lot when I was 17. Especially on rainy and dark afternoons and evenings. I loved to put my hood up and walk to the store for candy. It is what seventeen year old young men like to do.


Yes as a matter of fact they do. Along with younger and older kids. I always find it amazing the kind of weather someone will go through to get candy or in the case of adults beer. It scares me to think some of them may never make it home.


I read this and thought to myself, "I have seen those crazy people doing that!" And then I said, "Self, you have walked to the "candy store" for junk food how MANY times during a blizzard?"

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:00:15 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

And then I said, "Self, you have walked to the "candy store" for junk food how MANY times during a blizzard?"

Candy, no. Cat food, yes.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:19:36 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And then I said, "Self, you have walked to the "candy store" for junk food how MANY times during a blizzard?"

Candy, no. Cat food, yes.

it is amazing what someone will do for their critter!...


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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:19:58 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And then I said, "Self, you have walked to the "candy store" for junk food how MANY times during a blizzard?"

Candy, no. Cat food, yes.


I am not big on tv or movies but blizzards mean building fires, roasting marshmallows, and eating salty and sweet snacks in the living room while watching tv. All as a family. So. . . yeah. . . walking to the c-store for chips, chex mix, candy bars, and such is something I have done in inclement weather.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:21:21 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Florida law is such that if you were in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury, that lethal force is justified, and therefore are not guilty of manslaughter.


So... if I (were I living in Florida) wanted to get rid of someone (say a business or romantic rival) then all I have to do is provoke him into attacking me? Awesome!

Not really.

For me the bottom line remains: Zimmerman created the situation. Trayvon would not have felt a need to attack if Zimmerman had done what the police had told him and not followed him... or better yet, had not jumped to the racist conclusion that a young black man walking alone at night must be up to no good in the first place.

Zimmerman DID do what the 911 dispatcher told him to...he told the 911 dispatcher "Okay", stopped following Martin when he lost sight of Martin when Martin ran South at the "T", continued walking straight (East) on the walkway past the "T" to the end of the walkway where he called the police who told him to give them an address where they could meet him (he told them where his truck was), and was walking back (West) to his truck to meet the police when Martin appeared out of nowhere at the "T" and confronted him. According to Martin's 'girlfriend', Martin was almost home, 400 feet South of the "T", when he told he was being followed (a lie since he had just told her he had lost Zimmerman) by a "creepy ass cracker".

Of course, it all makes sense now. Zimmerman is such a clueless dumbass he became hopelessly lost within sight of his vehicle and simply stood still in the rain for the more than 2 minutes between hanging up the NEN call and the time we know the altercation began.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:41:29 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

No evidence has yet been presented that George continued to follow after he agreed to stop, or that George legally provoked the situation.


Listen to the 911 call Zimmerman made to the police. At one point he says that Trayvon is looking at him and is "coming to check me out." This is not surprising, most people would be curious about someone following them. Zimmerman later says, "shit, he's running" (so, apparently, Trayvon's first choice was flight) just before he admits to following Trayvon and the police tell him not to follow.

Zimmerman then talks to the police about where he will meet them. Since Zimmerman DID NOT say "he's running toward me" (he certainly gave no indication that he felt threatened at that point) then Trayvon was apparently running away.

So, did Trayvon come back? Possible, but that would seem unlikely.

Bottom line remains: Zimmerman created the situation.

YOU listen to the 911 call Zimmermann made to the police at the link YOU provided. At the point when Zimmerman tells the police that Trayvon is "Staring at me. Now coming to check me out" Zimmerman is INSIDE HIS PARKED TRUCK! It is not surprising indeed, most people would be suspicious about someone first staring at them and then coming to check them out when they are INSIDE A PARKED VEHICLE -- especially at night when it's raining. Zimmerman does indeed later say, "Shit, he's running" (so, obviously Martin was scared enough of Zimmerman that his first choice was to run away) just before he admits to following Martin and the 911 dispatcher says "We don't need you to do that" and he says "Okay" just before Martin turns South (at the "T") and runs out of Zimmerman's sight. Zimmerman then continues walking EAST, past the "T", and eventually gets to the end of the walkway, at which point he calls the police and tells them he's on his way back to his truck and he'll meet the police there. However, when he gets back to the "T" Martin comes out of the dark and confronts him.

Going EAST from the "T", it's almost as far to the end of the walkway as it is going South from the "T" to where Martin was living. There are only two possible ways that Martin could have met Zimmerman at the "T": 1) As soon as he turned South at the "T" and lost Zimmerman, Martin hid and waited for Zimmerman to come back, and; 2) After turning South at the "T" and running almost all the way home (400 feet +/-), he doubled-back intent on confronting Zimmerman.

Bottom line remains: Martin created the situation.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 3:58:01 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Nelson ruled today that Trayvon's toxicology is admissible.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 4:07:13 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		I woke up from nappy poo and caught the CNN trial coverage. The gym trainer guy demonstrated some gym guy shit and then testified that Zimmerman was a wet noodle. After that, I was about to put my hood up and go out into the dark rainy afternoon for candy when I caught the (black, male) CNN defense attorney adviser guy expert dude say "based on what I have seen so far in the trial, I do not know why this prosecution was brought".

I don't understand that man, did he say he thought Zimmerman was persecuted because the main steam media and social network armchair lawyers thought like 17 year old boys?

Sweet. We know what seventeen year old boys do.








< Message edited by Arturas -- 7/8/2013 4:13:18 PM >

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 4:12:06 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I wonder whose blood some of our RW folks would be calling for if martin had killed Zim.

Let's see. Armed man gets out of a vehicle and follows unarmed person down a dark alley and the unarmed person (fearing for his life because the guy has a gun) manages to kill him with his hands.

Wanna bet they'd be howling for Martin's blood?



That would make a lot of sense if everyone on the right was saying zimmy was innocent and everyone on the left was saying he wasn't. But that isn't how things are working up so why even bring up that bullshit left vs right fight?

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Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 4:42:32 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		Even a 17 year old boy knows Zimmerman will not earn a conviction here for manslaughter or murder.

In America we have rights. They are specific in nature and the right to free speech is one of them. There is also a control on those rights, that being if the exercise of that right harms another. Is it time to exercise that control on free speech in the media and the social networks since it is being used in an attempt to harm and take the basic right of liberty from you and me and Zimmerman?

Sweet. Time to take the candy away from the babies.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 5:54:40 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		FR,

I've just removed a number of posts for a variety of reasons. Some of you have gold mail.

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Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 6:01:21 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It hasnt been proven he took "multiple head injuries"

Photos prove he took multiple head injuries.


No, you need to read the post I replied too....

quote:

The question will boil down to...would a man pinned to the ground taking multiple head injuries reasonably fear imminent death or great bodily injury.


Again, there is no proof he had multiple head injuries under that condition.... if there is, please point to it.

You fellas are assuming he got the bloody nose and the head wounds while T had him "pinned" to the ground.

Now, prove it.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/8/2013 6:11:04 PM >

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