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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:54:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Wasnt he on his cell phone? How could he be reaching for it?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 721
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:54:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Just as reasonable to at least suspect that if he had been white he wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman.

Because whites are more inherently peaceful?

Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 722
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:55:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I get that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 723
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:55:22 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wasnt he on his cell phone? How could he be reaching for it?

Not when they first met.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 724
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:56:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self.

If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 725
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:56:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket?

Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/11/2013 5:58:01 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 726
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 5:59:06 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd.

Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 727
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:04:59 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self.

If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself?

Why are you asking me a question I already answered .
Yes, and if he were on trial I would be calling for his acquittal .
This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 728
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:06:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket?

Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone.

He was not talking on the phone at the time.
Since he wasn't using it he put it away.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 729
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:08:12 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

A cell phone is not a weapon.

Neither are Skittles. Well, maybe to a dentist.

quote:

While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so.

Does his belief's being accurate or not matter to his right to defend himself?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 730
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:09:51 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated.


Laughable given the claim Zimmerman feared for his life. What do you expect Martin thought when Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 731
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:10:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd.

Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white?

I don't know but keep in mind that while the only racial slurs came from Martin he insisted that Zimmerman was clearly the racist.
Can you honestly san that it would be different if Martin was white? You can feel so if you want but remember you will be saying that had he been white he wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 732
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:13:14 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Are we recycling the X-ray vision meme again?
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self.

If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself?



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 733
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:15:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

A cell phone is not a weapon.

Neither are Skittles. Well, maybe to a dentist.

quote:

While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so.

Does his belief's being accurate or not matter to his right to defend himself?

No
It affects Zimmerman's
Zimmerman's right to self defense in intact with him going for the cell phone
it would be different had he been going for the gun

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 734
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:15:50 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		In what reality did brown skinned people create this automatic presumption of real danger to black people?
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd.

Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white?



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 735
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:16:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket?

Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone.

He was not talking on the phone at the time.
Since he wasn't using it he put it away.


Thats not what I asked.

Why would anyone put their phone away if they thought someone was out and about trying to break in?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 736
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:16:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated.


Laughable given the claim Zimmerman feared for his life. What do you expect Martin thought when Zimmerman was reaching for something ?


Read my post again, I already answered that.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 737
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:16:58 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Are we recycling the X-ray vision meme again?

Nope. Just asking a question. If it's reasonable to believe that Martin (unarmed) caused Zimmerman (armed) to fear for his life, is the opposite not possible as well?

Does self-defense require that one actually be in danger, or does simply thinking it suffice?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 738
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:18:00 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket?

Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone.

He was not talking on the phone at the time.
Since he wasn't using it he put it away.


Thats not what I asked.

Why would anyone put their phone away if they thought someone was out and about trying to break in?


He had lost Martin as stated by both Martin and Zimmerman

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 739
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/11/2013 6:19:20 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

In what reality did brown skinned people create this automatic presumption of real danger to black people?

I'm not sure what you're attempting to ask here. You seem to be sacrificing clarity for snark.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 740
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