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Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 7:28:37 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Slate/Washington Post writer Brian Palmer thinks so.

Tipping Is an Abomination
Here's how to get rid of it.

Palmer says:

Tipping is a repugnant custom. It’s bad for consumers and terrible for workers. It perpetuates racism. Tipping isn’t even good for restaurants, because the legal morass surrounding gratuities results in scores of expensive lawsuits.

Thoughts, anyone? Do his arguments ring true to folks who've actually worked for tips?

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 8:23:20 PM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		Well, someone may have some good motives, but I would tell him to shut the hell up and let me make my money. Even in a state like Colorado which paid the average wait staff 2.11 per hour... I made my money. All of us did. In California where they get minimum wage plus tips, I believe is the way it ought to go. I made damn good money, picked the place I wanted to work, the hours and had no complaints. When I would move to a new place before I could find other types of work, I always went to waiting tables or bartending. If you do your job, do it with a smile, humor and work it... you will be fine. We even had benefits in a lot of places, savings plans and great networking.

In my opinion, anyone complaining, could be lazy, lousy at their job and knew what they were getting into when they took the job or soon after. Take it or leave it, you agreed to it.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 9:46:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		The man is clueless.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 10:19:42 PM   
MasterCaneman


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Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		When I tended bar, I usually only got state minimum or less. I lived off my tips, and when you had to spread the joy (share the tips among the whole staff), the more the merrier. I didn't read the article, but I can only assume it's some entitled trust-fund baby hipster that doesn't like doing math in his head.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 10:24:21 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I got that impression as well. He seems to insist that tipping breeds discrimination, that bus boys and hostesses are not entitled to tip sharing because they dont do much, and that the federal government insists that employers bridge the gap between salaries and minimum if a server doesnt make enough on the tables.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 10:25:36 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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Status: offline 		He's not suggested to abolish tips and that be it, he's suggesting that people should be paid a decent minimum wage for the work they do.

Personally, I agree that tipping should be abolished as a practice needed for people to survive on their wages, but that would only happen if minimum wages go up to what they are in Europe, and I don't see then the minimum wage quadruple any time soon, so considering that, tipping should stay as it currently is.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 10:43:24 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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I already rethought tipping, going over the travel/entertainment/dining budget the last time. If we aren't likely to return to a place, and the service wasn't freakin' awesome, I just don't. Sorry, but the economy still sucks around here.


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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/10/2013 10:50:40 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		One of my first major girlfriends was a waitress, the whole reason her and her friends went the extra mile with service, was for tips...
She use to always talk about her wage broken down to base and average tips.
I'm no restaurant expert but I always tip.
I wont make it horribly obvious though, I'll just give them the money and say keep the change.
What sux is I save peoples asses every night and I get no tips...

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 12:50:17 AM   
garyFLR


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

He's not suggested to abolish tips and that be it, he's suggesting that people should be paid a decent minimum wage for the work they do.

Personally, I agree that tipping should be abolished as a practice needed for people to survive on their wages, but that would only happen if minimum wages go up to what they are in Europe, and I don't see then the minimum wage quadruple any time soon, so considering that, tipping should stay as it currently is.
I agree totally.
In the UK there is a strain of thought, that the benefit system is used to top up the wages that should by rights be paid by the employer. As far as tipping is concerned, an employee should be paid a decent wage by his/her employer, so that if I choose to give someone a gratuity for exemplary service, I want them to spend it on luxuries & something extra, not so they can afford to eat. I'm tipping them, not their employer!


< Message edited by garyFLR -- 7/11/2013 12:51:37 AM >

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 1:45:08 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The man is clueless.

Not to mention dishonest. I especially liked him referring to a fact as a "widely held assumption." Yeah right.

Propaganda and double-speak.

K.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 2:04:44 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: garyFLR

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

He's not suggested to abolish tips and that be it, he's suggesting that people should be paid a decent minimum wage for the work they do.

Personally, I agree that tipping should be abolished as a practice needed for people to survive on their wages, but that would only happen if minimum wages go up to what they are in Europe, and I don't see then the minimum wage quadruple any time soon, so considering that, tipping should stay as it currently is.
I agree totally.
In the UK there is a strain of thought, that the benefit system is used to top up the wages that should by rights be paid by the employer. As far as tipping is concerned, an employee should be paid a decent wage by his/her employer, so that if I choose to give someone a gratuity for exemplary service, I want them to spend it on luxuries & something extra, not so they can afford to eat. I'm tipping them, not their employer!



I agree with this last sentiment. Being in the UK with a completely different culture around tipping, I can't get my brain around a company paying people two dollars an hour - that's obscene. I would much prefer to know that my server is being paid a fair wage even on quiet days, and I'd be happy to pay more for my meal to cover that cost. It doesn't seem right that the customer has the ability to screw them out of what they should earn just for doing the basics of their job. Give the option for people to opt out of paying for something and some folks will take it. I also imagine the servers must sometimes lose out on tips based on things beyond their control - mistakes by the kitchen, waits for a free table etc.

It just seems like a very callous attitude towards your staff because you're basically saying it's not your problem if they don't get paid fairly and you are leaving it at the mercy of potentially fickle strangers. Mind you, there are many aspects of US employment laws that seem unfair to me.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 3:05:09 AM   
DomKen


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I agree with the article.

Tipping is no longer a reward for good service. It is the service workers basic pay. I don't like the feeling that I need to tip just so the person will actually make minimum wage on the time spent serving me. I'd rather leave a tip as an actual bonus for that service.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 3:15:39 AM   
Winterapple


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I waited tables while I was in school and I agree with the article.
Pay people a decent working wage and if the customer wants to
give them something let them. Employers should be the ones who
pay their employees. Putting their livelihood on customers some of
who never tip or barely tip stinks. If a customer decides to not tip
the waitress because the food wasn't to his liking why should the waitress
be punished for that? She didn't cook the food she just served it.
And it's not her fault if the customer had to wait for a table or was in
a crap mood to begin with.

The place I worked at was a prosperous family place, not a big place
and no alcohol was served. We had a lot of regular customers, many
of who were retired. They'd tip maybe fifty cents on average. Didn't
matter who served them or how much they ordered. In addition to waiting
tables we had to bus the tables and do other things as well.
Large parties were often the cheapest tippers. We were paid minimum
wage with a slight raise after a year and a Christmas bonus.

I treated all the customers with the same courtesy including the ones I
knew didn't tip of barely tipped. Paying people adequately and expecting them
to be professional and do their jobs should be adequate incentive for good service.


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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 3:38:31 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I think service staff should earn minimum wage at least, with tips. These are hard jobs to do well, both physically and mentally.

As for bus boys not doing that much, you try hauling 30 lb loads of dirty dishes around for 8 hours.

I always tip well, and especially well for excellent service. But then I've been on the other side relying on tip money to pay the bills.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 4:45:24 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Years ago, "working for tips" was a great thing. Even a mediocre server/waiter/batender made a lot more than people working in a fast food joint and Uncle Sugar only taxed them on the $1.90 per hour that their employer paid them. That's not the case, now.

I am not sure if it is law, per se (but, I'll bet it is) but I know places that require their employees to count their tips out in front of a supervisor and the entire amount is reported as income. So much for the "benefit" of working for tips.

Let's look at the drawbacks ...

These people can only rely on a paultry amount of money for an 8 hour shift. I think it's fair to say that the average would be somewhere between $16 and $24. Could you live on that? And yet, there are some days where they may only make $10 on top of that. Could you live on that ? I couldn't.

I don't know how the exclusion from paying a minimum wage was bestowed upon restaurants, etc. but, I do think it aught to stop.

I believe that between "working for tips" and working for strictly commission, somehow we've managed to re-institutionalize a form of slavery.

I think it's time for the corporate "citizens" to start paying their "fair share".



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 5:24:39 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


These people can only rely on a paultry amount of money for an 8 hour shift. I think it's fair to say that the average would be somewhere between $16 and $24. Could you live on that? And yet, there are some days where they may only make $10 on top of that. Could you live on that ? I couldn't.




Not critiquing, just asking because I have no idea and I know there are (ex)servers here, but do they really make THAT little?

It's hard for me to imagine only making $10 on a 8 hour shift, because I can't remember the last time I left less than a $10 tip (we tip baseline 20% and adjust up or down for service). Hell, there's been times that we've paid the pizza delivery dude a $10-$15 tip (we tip pizza high on purpose cause we like to get it hot, and I know from a friend that we're always first on the route of a delivery, and drivers compete to get our order).

Usually tips amount to somewhere around $20-$30 a meal (plus drinks) for the two of us, but I've been known to tip as high as 30% on extraordinary service, so sometimes it ends up being up to $45-$50.

With that in mind, I just have a very hard time imagining somebody making less than $10 a shift.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 5:33:02 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


These people can only rely on a paultry amount of money for an 8 hour shift. I think it's fair to say that the average would be somewhere between $16 and $24. Could you live on that? And yet, there are some days where they may only make $10 on top of that. Could you live on that ? I couldn't.




Not critiquing, just asking because I have no idea and I know there are (ex)servers here, but do they really make THAT little?

It's hard for me to imagine only making $10 on a 8 hour shift, because I can't remember the last time I left less than a $10 tip (we tip baseline 20% and adjust up or down for service). Hell, there's been times that we've paid the pizza delivery dude a $10-$15 tip (we tip pizza high on purpose cause we like to get it hot, and I know from a friend that we're always first on the route of a delivery, and drivers compete to get our order).

Usually tips amount to somewhere around $20-$30 a meal (plus drinks) for the two of us, but I've been known to tip as high as 30% on extraordinary service, so sometimes it ends up being up to $45-$50.

With that in mind, I just have a very hard time imagining somebody making less than $10 a shift.


I'm not sure if you mis-read or there's a language barrier or if I didn't express myself correctly.

The usually wage for a server/waiter is somewhere between $2 and $3 per hour. For an 8 hour shift, that is between $16 and $24.

I said that I knew people in the industry and sometimes, they only make $10 per shift on top of that; bringing the 8 hour total to $26 to $34.

What I didn't go into was that the "base wage" ($16 - $24 per 8 hour shift) is also taxed and if we figure the taxes, liberally (20% tax rate), that amount goes down to $12.80 - $19.20 for the 8 hours.

And that's not even accurate, anymore because servers are taxed based upon minimum wage in most places. Now, if you take a worst-case scenario and a person makes $120 for working 40 hours and their restaurant does a very slow business, that week, they could wind up paying almost as much in taxes as they made. Now that is simply working as a slave to the government.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/11/2013 5:38:08 AM >

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 6:22:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


These people can only rely on a paultry amount of money for an 8 hour shift. I think it's fair to say that the average would be somewhere between $16 and $24. Could you live on that? And yet, there are some days where they may only make $10 on top of that. Could you live on that ? I couldn't.




Not critiquing, just asking because I have no idea and I know there are (ex)servers here, but do they really make THAT little?

It's hard for me to imagine only making $10 on a 8 hour shift, because I can't remember the last time I left less than a $10 tip (we tip baseline 20% and adjust up or down for service). Hell, there's been times that we've paid the pizza delivery dude a $10-$15 tip (we tip pizza high on purpose cause we like to get it hot, and I know from a friend that we're always first on the route of a delivery, and drivers compete to get our order).

Usually tips amount to somewhere around $20-$30 a meal (plus drinks) for the two of us, but I've been known to tip as high as 30% on extraordinary service, so sometimes it ends up being up to $45-$50.

With that in mind, I just have a very hard time imagining somebody making less than $10 a shift.

In a lot of places a good tipper is rare. Frequently the tip will be a single dollar or even the change from the check. And lots of people don't tip at all. So if a server gets a bad combination of customers $10 or less in tips is certainly possible. That's part of the reason a lot of places have the servers pool tips. It serves to even out that stuff.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 6:27:05 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Years ago, "working for tips" was a great thing. Even a mediocre server/waiter/batender made a lot more than people working in a fast food joint and Uncle Sugar only taxed them on the $1.90 per hour that their employer paid them. That's not the case, now.

I am not sure if it is law, per se (but, I'll bet it is) but I know places that require their employees to count their tips out in front of a supervisor and the entire amount is reported as income. So much for the "benefit" of working for tips.


Technically it was always supposed to be all reported as income. Often back when most people paid in cash the servers would simply fill out a form that indicated their tips came up to or above minimum wage (so the employer didn't have to pay them any extra). Then the IRS cracked down on that so places started requiring the servers count in front of a manager. Now of course the extensive use of debit and credit cards allows the business to track most of a servers tips, pay taxes on them and include them in the employee's paycheck which means the server is waiting two weeks or more for their tips.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 6:35:56 AM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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Lots of great food for thought. Thanks, everyone!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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