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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 2:22:41 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

clueless. If you are not African American how can you even began to relate to who EVERYONE is coming together about the race issue.


Interesting concept.

This pre-supposes I am somehow required to relate to everyone about something you call "the race issue"? No. Instead, I am an American. I have a constitutional right and even a moral requirement to bear arms and protect me and mine.

I am not required to "relate".






< Message edited by Arturas -- 7/21/2013 2:30:06 PM >


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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 2:34:12 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Yeah, well as a Jew, we're motivated by Chesed, and that's sort of hebrew for "Don't be a dick". On a meta-level, it integrates what others might call Karma right into the core beliefs.


Thats kind of funny. Cuz I bet if you took a poll most people would rate Jews real high on the "dick" scale. Kind of a case of lack of awareness, if you ask me.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 7/21/2013 2:38:06 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 2:43:57 PM   
Phydeaux


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I believe that the Attorney General and others are keeping this case alive - because its preferable to the alternative.
By doing so they

a). Motivate their voters
b). Distract media attention from the IRS, Benghazi, EPA, Detroit, and other scandals.

The democrats prior to this had a serious excitement gap. This is ginning up support in their minority communities. And democrats usually lose the white vote, so the odds are that it will not cost them much among their core constitutencies, of gay, union, jewish, hispanic etc.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 2:49:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

clueless. If you are not African American how can you even began to relate to who EVERYONE is coming together about the race issue.


Interesting concept.

This pre-supposes I am somehow required to relate to everyone about something you call "the race issue"? No. Instead, I am an American. I have a constitutional right and even a moral requirement to bear arms and protect me and mine.

I am not required to "relate".








the constitution has nothing what so ever to do with your right to bear arms because the right to bear arms is inherent and did not spawn from the constitution.

You have an obligation to protect yourself and your family by the means of the times, even if that is nukes.



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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:04:43 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Awwwww, c'mon Fargle-stop weaseling-when was the last time you offered a stranger a ride in said circumstances?



Nearest I can think is me springing the 4 bucks for a bus day-pass for a kid who was sharing the a bus-shelter with me one evening after work downtown. Not a lot of hitchhiking IN THE CITY OF ALBANY actually, and being in the city, there's nothing special about people walking around. But occasionally you get to help someone out.

Martin wasn't hitchhiking.
To answer the question as you put it toward Zimmerman when is the last time you saw someone looking like Martin stop and offer them a ride at night when that had shown no interest in getting one.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:07:41 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

In my book, "equal protection of the law" and "due process" doesn't mean that the Prosecution and Defense can work together to construct jury instructions specifically limited to return only not-guilty verdicts.

Again, in this case the jury instructions here provided for Murder 2, and Manslaughter BY ACT, specifically omitting the slam-dunk Manslaughter by negligence included lesser offense.

That's not an accident. And if I'm surprised, it's that a no-body could get the State to do that for him.

Your right the state wouldn't fix a case for a "nobody" He was not guilty.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:36:08 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Thats kind of funny. Cuz I bet if you took a poll most people would rate Jews real high on the "dick" scale. Kind of a case of lack of awareness, if you ask me.

Really? Because honestly I don't have much of an opinion about "jews". I dislike Israel a great deal. I'm none too happy with the "finance industry" which contains a large number of jewish names. But jews in general? I got nothing, sorry.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:44:58 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Thats kind of funny. Cuz I bet if you took a poll most people would rate Jews real high on the "dick" scale. Kind of a case of lack of awareness, if you ask me.

Really? Because honestly I don't have much of an opinion about "jews". I dislike Israel a great deal. I'm none too happy with the "finance industry" which contains a large number of jewish names. But jews in general? I got nothing, sorry.



Same as Jeff....... The right on here always conflate being critical of the Israeli State as being anti-semetic. It is a well tried tactic to try and negate any valid points.

edited for spelling error

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 7/21/2013 4:46:04 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:53:08 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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IM guessing that most of the jews, like the majority of blacks, asians, whites , germans, muslims africans, french, russians and americans Ive met are only "dicks" to other "dicks"

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 4:58:57 PM   
angelikaJ


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FR
These are snippets of thought:

First, I believe the prosecution over-charged George Zimmerman to begin with
I believe the jury reached the correct verdict under the rule of law.

I also believe that under that law had the outcome been different: had Trayvon Martin killed George Martin because he thought his life was in imminent danger, (after all, he was being pursued by an unknown man who was armed) the premise of self-defense should have been as equally plausible under the law.
Personally, I believe that would have been more easily understandable than this, for me.

I think that when the neighbor identified Trayvon hitting George's head into the pavement as a MMA move, that should have been stricken.
AFAIK, Trayvon did not have mixed martial arts training and the term was prejudicial.

I believe the juror who spoke on TV identified with Zimmerman.
She kept referring to him as George.
That is understandable.
Sadly, *most people have a fear of young black men on dark streets.

In the days following the verdict, Zimmerman's attorneys discussed, at length, how in America, justice is racially biased.
It is an issue that needs to be addressed, but this case was not the correct platform.

*Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” - See more at: http://theracecardproject.com/jesse-jackson-fears-black-youths-racism-2/#sthash.LncV6Pig.dpuf

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 5:45:09 PM   
BamaD


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I think that when the neighbor identified Trayvon hitting George's head into the pavement as a MMA move, that should have been stricken.
AFAIK, Trayvon did not have mixed martial arts training and the term was prejudicial.

That is what it looked like to the witness.
Would you have preferred the witness had said "trying to pound his head into the ground" which he could just as easily have said.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 5:49:34 PM   
angelikaJ


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Yup.

By characterizing it as a MMA move, it implies all sorts of things.
Simply stating what he saw takes away those implications.

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30 fluffy points!

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 6:16:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Yup.

By characterizing it as a MMA move, it implies all sorts of things.
Simply stating what he saw takes away those implications.

If he said it looked like he was trying to pound Zimmerman's head in the ground you would be calling that prejudicial.

And MMA style was what it looked like to him.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/21/2013 6:17:06 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 2293
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 6:54:51 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

He and Martin both made mistakes.


The only way we know Martin made mistakes is from Zimmerman's testimony. We don't know if he made any mistakes at all. There weren't any witnesses.

The idea that jury verdict ends the matter isn't true --- in many ways it has added fuel to the fire.

-------

GotSteel: I agree, Z is a jelly donut.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/21/2013 6:55:37 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 6:59:32 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I believe that the Attorney General and others are keeping this case alive - because its preferable to the alternative.
By doing so they

a). Motivate their voters
b). Distract media attention from the IRS, Benghazi, EPA, Detroit, and other scandals.

The democrats prior to this had a serious excitement gap. This is ginning up support in their minority communities. And democrats usually lose the white vote, so the odds are that it will not cost them much among their core constitutencies, of gay, union, jewish, hispanic etc.


I've said this all along. They don't really care all that much about 'justice for Trayvon', they're simply not letting a good crisis go to waste.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 7:13:18 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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I would agree that had the police rounded the corner, and seen Trayvon Martin standing over a dead Zimmerman, with only the survivor's version of events to go on, that the rule of law would have demanded the same process and Martin should have been acquitted on the limited facts in evidence.

MMA is a TV show, and a strip mall exercise class. In reality Martin could have been doing schoolyard 'sit on their chest and bloody their nose', or it could have been 52 Blocks.
I suspect that the witness used the label that came to mind for them, and it probably sufficed to communicate the picture in their memory to the jury. It did establish the significant point, that Zimmerman was on the bottom.

As far as Jesse Jackson goes, don't forget that he is also the one trying to peddle the 'Trayvon Martin was executed with a bullet to the back of his head' story.
As long as there is fear and loathing between the races, Jesse will continue getting paid for the only job he's ever held.


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

FR
These are snippets of thought:

First, I believe the prosecution over-charged George Zimmerman to begin with
I believe the jury reached the correct verdict under the rule of law.

I also believe that under that law had the outcome been different: had Trayvon Martin killed George Martin because he thought his life was in imminent danger, (after all, he was being pursued by an unknown man who was armed) the premise of self-defense should have been as equally plausible under the law.
Personally, I believe that would have been more easily understandable than this, for me.

I think that when the neighbor identified Trayvon hitting George's head into the pavement as a MMA move, that should have been stricken.
AFAIK, Trayvon did not have mixed martial arts training and the term was prejudicial.

I believe the juror who spoke on TV identified with Zimmerman.
She kept referring to him as George.
That is understandable.
Sadly, *most people have a fear of young black men on dark streets.

In the days following the verdict, Zimmerman's attorneys discussed, at length, how in America, justice is racially biased.
It is an issue that needs to be addressed, but this case was not the correct platform.

*Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” - See more at: http://theracecardproject.com/jesse-jackson-fears-black-youths-racism-2/#sthash.LncV6Pig.dpuf



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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 7:25:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

He and Martin both made mistakes.


The only way we know Martin made mistakes is from Zimmerman's testimony. We don't know if he made any mistakes at all. There weren't any witnesses.

The idea that jury verdict ends the matter isn't true --- in many ways it has added fuel to the fire.

-------

GotSteel: I agree, Z is a jelly donut.

He attacked an armed man, big mistake

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 2297
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 7:25:23 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I believe that the Attorney General and others are keeping this case alive - because its preferable to the alternative.
By doing so they

a). Motivate their voters
b). Distract media attention from the IRS, Benghazi, EPA, Detroit, and other scandals.

The democrats prior to this had a serious excitement gap. This is ginning up support in their minority communities. And democrats usually lose the white vote, so the odds are that it will not cost them much among their core constitutencies, of gay, union, jewish, hispanic etc.


I think you're partially correct, but I also strongly suspect, and this suspicion gets stronger every day, that the main impetus for Obama/Holder is Gun control. Everything else is just an added bonus.
Remember, every calamity is also an opportunity.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

He and Martin both made mistakes.


The only way we know Martin made mistakes is from Zimmerman's testimony. We don't know if he made any mistakes at all. There weren't any witnesses.

The idea that jury verdict ends the matter isn't true --- in many ways it has added fuel to the fire.

-------

GotSteel: I agree, Z is a jelly donut.


Well,if he thought he was being followed, he could have acted like a citizen and called the cops. He could have stayed home. He could have avoided Z once he lost him. He could have done lots of things,none of which invloved confronting Z.
But he didn't.
And I won't even mention the prior "mistakes" that led to him getting jammed out of school/Moms...

One of the great rules of life, It takes two to tango

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 7:59:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I believe that the Attorney General and others are keeping this case alive - because its preferable to the alternative.
By doing so they

a). Motivate their voters
b). Distract media attention from the IRS, Benghazi, EPA, Detroit, and other scandals.

The democrats prior to this had a serious excitement gap. This is ginning up support in their minority communities. And democrats usually lose the white vote, so the odds are that it will not cost them much among their core constitutencies, of gay, union, jewish, hispanic etc.


I think you're partially correct, but I also strongly suspect, and this suspicion gets stronger every day, that the main impetus for Obama/Holder is Gun control. Everything else is just an added bonus.
Remember, every calamity is also an opportunity.


Everything else makes it easier to get the things he wants, like gun control, Martin? A martyr to the cause, not of equality but of liberalism.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2299
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/21/2013 8:04:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

He and Martin both made mistakes.


The only way we know Martin made mistakes is from Zimmerman's testimony. We don't know if he made any mistakes at all. There weren't any witnesses.

The idea that jury verdict ends the matter isn't true --- in many ways it has added fuel to the fire.

-------

GotSteel: I agree, Z is a jelly donut.


Well,if he thought he was being followed, he could have acted like a citizen and called the cops. He could have stayed home. He could have avoided Z once he lost him. He could have done lots of things,none of which invloved confronting Z.
But he didn't.
And I won't even mention the prior "mistakes" that led to him getting jammed out of school/Moms...

One of the great rules of life, It takes two to tango

You feel threatened so you call your GF?
No, you call your GF to score points with her.
You don't beat the guy up cause your scared you do it, under these conditions, to impress your GF.
What's on your mind isn't that you have to defend yourself but that this will get you laid.
A little far fetched?
Makes more sense than most of the anti Zimmerman trash I've read here.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/21/2013 8:05:39 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2300
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