RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:01:19 PM)

Back to the realm of personal property defense. When you can leave the scene, or not enter the scene, in public, SYG should not apply.

Just my opinion. I have no issue with self defense, I have an issue with SYG laws.




DarqueMirror -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:03:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's sort of amazing that when violent crime was much more common and concealed carry was illegal almost universally that anyone survived. [8|]


Oh really? Then why do D.C. and Chicago...two places with the strictest gun control laws in the country have the highest murder rates?




tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:04:48 PM)

Because the outlying areas have such lax laws.




Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:05:45 PM)

It's mob rule when a state passes a popular law that violates the US Constitution... This case had absolutely nothing to do with SYG.


Agree totally that any anger should be channeled into other than rioting. Seems ironic that the same anger is fueled by the media continuously misstating the laws though.

Your idea would work if a national amendment to the Constitution (nullifying Graham and Garner) were passed, not a state level law.

And then, nationwide, the next 17 year old who was on her back being battered by someone bigger than her, would simply have to lie back and enjoy waiting for the police, per the new standards on self defense.

ETA: Unintended consequences, either way we go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How is a petition and an election mob rule? If you don't like a law you change it through the voting boot and the majority will rule. Florida's version of stand your ground goes beyond a vehicle or residence and this was directly a contributing factor in this young mans unnecessary death.

Zimmerman was found not guilty and it was the correct verdict under the circumstances of verifiable evidence but it does not make it right or moral.

I am just saying the anger should be directed where it will do some good and not in rioting.

Butch





kdsub -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:06:03 PM)

Back to where children, or anyone for that matter, are not stalked, confronted, and legally killed... when it was not necessary. Back to the law before 2004... back to the law that governs the majority of other states with stand your ground laws...back to common sense.

Of course this is just my opinion but tragedies like this may just change other minds.

Butch




Real0ne -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:06:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How is a petition and an election mob rule? If you don't like a law you change it through the voting boot and the majority will rule. Florida's version of stand your ground goes beyond a vehicle or residence and this was directly a contributing factor in this young mans unnecessary death.

Zimmerman was found not guilty and it was the correct verdict under the circumstances of verifiable evidence but it does not make it right or moral.

I am just saying the anger should be directed where it will do some good and not in rioting.

Butch


and hows voting the bums out been workin for ya?

bad information you do not change shit by voting.

you change it with jury nullification.




BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:07:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because the outlying areas have such lax laws.

Then why don't the outlying areas have such high crime rates.




DarqueMirror -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:07:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because the outlying areas have such lax laws.


Red herring. The guns are out there and will continue to be. Making concealed carry illegal only takes the guns away from those who obey the laws. The criminals do not obey gun control laws.




dcnovice -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:08:08 PM)

quote:

Oh really? Then why do D.C. and Chicago...two places with the strictest gun control laws in the country have the highest murder rates?

If PolicyMic is to be believed, neither Chicago nor D.C. made the top ten in 2012.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012




Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:08:36 PM)

Especially self defense for (dare I say it?) people who don't look like a Kennedy?

That last was absolutely not directed at kdsub's understandable wish for legislation that would have kept Martin alive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The Florida statues on self defense were written decades ago, to match the US Supreme Court's ruling setting the new standard... 'a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm'. That's the standard the jury was told to apply. Not SYG, not child abuse, not dueling, not any of the media's hype.


It would make them feel better. And the goal for some was to undermine self defense all along.





BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:09:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Back to where children, or anyone for that matter, are not stalked, confronted, and legally killed... when it was not necessary. Back to the law before 2004... back to the law that governs the majority of other states with stand your ground laws...back to common sense.

Of course this is just my opinion but tragedies like this may just change other minds.

Butch

Sounds nice but you didn't even try to answer my question,




tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:09:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because the outlying areas have such lax laws.


Red herring. The guns are out there and will continue to be. Making concealed carry illegal only takes the guns away from those who obey the laws. The criminals do not obey gun control laws.


Of course they are out there. Gun owners dont believe in personal responsibility. The bad guys get em from the good guys, and you guys just pat each other on the backs, wink and nod and carry on about your business.




DarqueMirror -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:10:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Oh really? Then why do D.C. and Chicago...two places with the strictest gun control laws in the country have the highest murder rates?

If PolicyMic is to be believed, neither Chicago nor D.C. made the top ten in 2012.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012


Then simply substitute those two cities for Detroit and New Orleans and the point stands.




Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:11:03 PM)

Garner was in the 1980s IIRC, there is no 2004 law that has anything to do with this case.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Back to where children, or anyone for that matter, are not stalked, confronted, and legally killed... when it was not necessary. Back to the law before 2004... back to the law that governs the majority of other states with stand your ground laws...back to common sense.

Of course this is just my opinion but tragedies like this may just change other minds.

Butch





tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:12:37 PM)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-was-born-of-2004-case-but-story-has-been/1225164




Edwynn -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:13:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
a brown skinned man ...


You've only said that about 30 times already, and I've still got three more pages of the thread to read.




DarqueMirror -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:13:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course they are out there. Gun owners dont believe in personal responsibility. The bad guys get em from the good guys, and you guys just pat each other on the backs, wink and nod and carry on about your business.


That's it. Blame law abiding citizens for the actions of criminals. Good call.




BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:13:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because the outlying areas have such lax laws.


Red herring. The guns are out there and will continue to be. Making concealed carry illegal only takes the guns away from those who obey the laws. The criminals do not obey gun control laws.


Of course they are out there. Gun owners dont believe in personal responsibility. The bad guys get em from the good guys, and you guys just pat each other on the backs, wink and nod and carry on about your business.

A small percentage may not the majority do if only because guns are expensive.




tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:14:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course they are out there. Gun owners dont believe in personal responsibility. The bad guys get em from the good guys, and you guys just pat each other on the backs, wink and nod and carry on about your business.


That's it. Blame law abiding citizens for the actions of criminals. Good call.


I own a gun.

I have been blaming them all along.

Do I need to pull up all the recent children's deaths to prove my point?




Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/13/2013 10:15:10 PM)

Yep... and you've only lied about the facts, how many times?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
a brown skinned man ...


You've only said that about 30 times already, and I've still got three more pages of the thread to read.






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