RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:30:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl My grandfather, and my dad, didnt allow us to use our "race" as a card. It wasnt a "get out of trouble free" card, we couldnt pull it out to excuse our behavior based upon centuries of abuse... I think if I saw a Native American on TV right now, complaining about his heritage and how he was abused by the "white man", I would cringe. Thank you for your post, tazzy. I admire your grandfather. I never even knew him, but I admire him. He was proud in the best sense of the word: He understood self-respect and personal responsibility. Nobody can take that away from a man who actually has any. K. Alright, I am 1/4 Native American the rest is a mix of German, Welsh, Irish, English and French therefore I am a typical American, a heinz 57 or Mutt, and I feel persecuted because Mutt is not a choice on the census.

DarkSteven -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:31:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended. We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly. Agreed, except you are implying that justice was not served here. "Justice" is what six women on a jury decided after reviewing all evidence, and by its nature may not be what we personally would wish it to be. quote: You can kill someone who is part of the Ngger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a Ngger, you're fine. This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country. Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it. The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done.

tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:34:45 AM)
I think that is what many are saying through their protest... the laws need to be changed. And I agree about the jurors.. said so earlier. I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law.

vincentML -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:36:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended. We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly. You can kill someone who is part of the Ngger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a Ngger, you're fine. This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country. America has a sad racial history it's true but your statement is hyperbole. 94% of black victims are assaulted by blacks and 86% of white victims are assaulted by whites. The numbers are approximate but you can see the message. Victimhood is a matter of proximity and opportunity, not race.

DarkSteven -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:36:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law. The jurors did exactly what the law told them to. Anger against them would be like blaming a hammer for what a carpenter did.

jlf1961 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:38:34 AM)
Alright I am a fanatic lunatic who owns guns, and as such I can tell you the reason there are Stand Your Ground laws in this country.... Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE.

tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:38:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl My grandfather, and my dad, didnt allow us to use our "race" as a card. It wasnt a "get out of trouble free" card, we couldnt pull it out to excuse our behavior based upon centuries of abuse... I think if I saw a Native American on TV right now, complaining about his heritage and how he was abused by the "white man", I would cringe. Thank you for your post, tazzy. I admire your dad and your grandfather. I never even knew them, but I admire them. They were proud in the best sense of the word: They understood self-respect and personal responsibility. Nobody can take that away from a man who actually has any. K. Different races approach the problem different ways. I admired them both greatly. Thank you.

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:38:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this... Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now. K.

farglebargle -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:38:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended. We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly. You can kill someone who is part of the Ngger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a Ngger, you're fine. This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country. America has a sad racial history it's true but your statement is hyperbole. 94% of black victims are assaulted by blacks and 86% of white victims are assaulted by whites. The numbers are approximate but you can see the message. Victimhood is a matter of proximity and opportunity, not race. And courts are unconcerned about 'justice' for any of them. Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not N*gger Lawyers like everyone else gets. I never said anything about 'victimhood'. I critiqued the America's BASIC FIBER and the courts which evolve from it.

tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:40:35 AM)
quote: Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE. And yet isnt there a case concerning the loudness of music just recently?

farglebargle -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:40:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this... Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now. K. Zimmerman isn't INNOCENT. Zimmerman was found not guilty of a limited set of charges, given the jury instructions they were limited by. Zimmerman walked because the laywers on both sides constructed instructions which specifically ommitted the relevant included lesser charge, and no the jurors didn't care enough to ask why not. But after Amadou Diallo's killers walked, giving juries instructions hand-crafted to avoid guilty verdicts has been part of the toolkit.

vincentML -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:41:13 AM)
quote: Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it. The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done. Criminal law is not a contest between purpetrator and aggrieved. It is a contest between the State and a single citizen where the State has the advantage of enormous resources. If there is inequity in criminal law it is to the disadvantage of the poor of any race. The common error is to think the victim is a party to the process.

cloudboy -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:41:40 AM)
quote: Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it. The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done. Yes to me the systemic problem here is about guns, the lack of a witness (the victim's dead), and poor judgment on the part of the killer (or what the next set of facts will look like) backed up by FLA's SYG law (encouraging gun-use/deadly force to resolve inter-personal conflicts.) Prejudices are also at play. The verdict may well have been different if the victim was a white girl. The police would have handled the case differently. The media would have a differently slant, and the majority (not the minority) class would have wanted justice. Change this one variable, and maybe the circumstantial evidence is enough.

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:41:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law. Then you missed this link: N*ggas coming for that bitch ass jury K.

farglebargle -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:42:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE. And yet isnt there a case concerning the loudness of music just recently? Yup. If anything, Zimmerman's acquittal proves it's still Open Season... If you can afford White Lawyers, go ahead, grab a gun and flashlight and go coon hunting.

tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:43:18 AM)
My post in another thread would get deleted... but.. fuck.. why do you have to bring in racial slurs into this conversation? WTF? Do you feel better for having posted those words?

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:45:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not N*gger Lawyers like everyone else gets. I think that clears up your views on race very nicely, thank you. K.

farglebargle -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:46:36 AM)
What racial slur? Ngger? To "The Man", we're all Nggers. And don't you ever forget it. SOME Nggers have black skin. SOME have white skin. But we're all expendable. SOME Nggers are just worth-less than others. But hasn't that always been the case?

Yachtie -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:46:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It is painful to say this... Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now. K. It's the emotion of white guilt on display, K. Nothing more. Nothing less. Sad, really.

farglebargle -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:49:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not Ngger Lawyers like everyone else gets. I think that clears up your views on race very nicely, thank you. K. Yeah. Everyone who says "It's not about race" is full of shit. It's all about race. Absent Zimmerman's claims, there's no evidence that Trayvon Martin was a "crazy ngger who went crazy!", I can't still accept that he just went nuts and unprovoked, attacked Zimmerman. It's clear to me that Zimmerman, true to form UNLAWFULLY TRIED TO DETAIN MARTIN. And at that point, Martin's resistance was self-defense.

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