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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:30:59 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My grandfather, and my dad, didnt allow us to use our "race" as a card. It wasnt a "get out of trouble free" card, we couldnt pull it out to excuse our behavior based upon centuries of abuse... I think if I saw a Native American on TV right now, complaining about his heritage and how he was abused by the "white man", I would cringe.

Thank you for your post, tazzy. I admire your grandfather. I never even knew him, but I admire him. He was proud in the best sense of the word: He understood self-respect and personal responsibility. Nobody can take that away from a man who actually has any.

K.



Alright, I am 1/4 Native American the rest is a mix of German, Welsh, Irish, English and French therefore I am a typical American, a heinz 57 or Mutt, and I feel persecuted because Mutt is not a choice on the census.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1061
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:31:55 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly.

Agreed, except you are implying that justice was not served here. "Justice" is what six women on a jury decided after reviewing all evidence, and by its nature may not be what we personally would wish it to be.
quote:



You can kill someone who is part of the N*gger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a N*gger, you're fine.

This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country.



Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it.

The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 7/15/2013 5:35:07 AM >

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 1062
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:34:45 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think that is what many are saying through their protest... the laws need to be changed. And I agree about the jurors.. said so earlier.

I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 1063
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:36:27 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly. You can kill someone who is part of the N*gger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a N*gger, you're fine.

This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country.


America has a sad racial history it's true but your statement is hyperbole.

94% of black victims are assaulted by blacks and 86% of white victims are assaulted by whites. The numbers are approximate but you can see the message. Victimhood is a matter of proximity and opportunity, not race.


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 1064
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:36:28 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law.


The jurors did exactly what the law told them to. Anger against them would be like blaming a hammer for what a carpenter did.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1065
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:38:34 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Alright I am a fanatic lunatic who owns guns, and as such I can tell you the reason there are Stand Your Ground laws in this country....


Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1066
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:38:53 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My grandfather, and my dad, didnt allow us to use our "race" as a card. It wasnt a "get out of trouble free" card, we couldnt pull it out to excuse our behavior based upon centuries of abuse... I think if I saw a Native American on TV right now, complaining about his heritage and how he was abused by the "white man", I would cringe.

Thank you for your post, tazzy. I admire your dad and your grandfather. I never even knew them, but I admire them. They were proud in the best sense of the word: They understood self-respect and personal responsibility. Nobody can take that away from a man who actually has any.

K.




Different races approach the problem different ways. I admired them both greatly. Thank you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1067
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:38:53 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this...

Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 1068
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:38:55 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's working perfectly. You can kill someone who is part of the N*gger-Class and walk away secure in your knowledge that as long as you kill a N*gger, you're fine.

This isn't a problem with the law. It's AMERICA. This is our country.


America has a sad racial history it's true but your statement is hyperbole.

94% of black victims are assaulted by blacks and 86% of white victims are assaulted by whites. The numbers are approximate but you can see the message. Victimhood is a matter of proximity and opportunity, not race.




And courts are unconcerned about 'justice' for any of them. Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not N*gger Lawyers like everyone else gets.

I never said anything about 'victimhood'. I critiqued the America's BASIC FIBER and the courts which evolve from it.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 1069
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:40:35 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE.


And yet isnt there a case concerning the loudness of music just recently?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 1070
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:40:53 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this...

Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now.

K.


Zimmerman isn't INNOCENT.

Zimmerman was found not guilty of a limited set of charges, given the jury instructions they were limited by.

Zimmerman walked because the laywers on both sides constructed instructions which specifically ommitted the relevant included lesser charge, and no the jurors didn't care enough to ask why not.

But after Amadou Diallo's killers walked, giving juries instructions hand-crafted to avoid guilty verdicts has been part of the toolkit.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/15/2013 5:41:30 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1071
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:41:13 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it.

The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done.

Criminal law is not a contest between purpetrator and aggrieved. It is a contest between the State and a single citizen where the State has the advantage of enormous resources. If there is inequity in criminal law it is to the disadvantage of the poor of any race. The common error is to think the victim is a party to the process.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 1072
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:41:40 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Nope. Race had nothing explicit to do with it.

The problem here is that a trial uses all resources available. Since Martin was killed, he was unable to testify, while Zimmerman was. The problem here is that a dead person has less ability to influence a jury than a live person does, giving a survivor an advantage. I'm not sure what should or could be done.


Yes to me the systemic problem here is about guns, the lack of a witness (the victim's dead), and poor judgment on the part of the killer (or what the next set of facts will look like) backed up by FLA's SYG law (encouraging gun-use/deadly force to resolve inter-personal conflicts.)

Prejudices are also at play. The verdict may well have been different if the victim was a white girl. The police would have handled the case differently. The media would have a differently slant, and the majority (not the minority) class would have wanted justice. Change this one variable, and maybe the circumstantial evidence is enough.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/15/2013 5:43:35 AM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 1073
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:41:59 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont hear much anger about the jurors... just the law.

Then you missed this link:

N*ggas coming for that bitch ass jury

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1074
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:42:37 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Because it would be unconstitutional to pass laws declaring open season on minorities, liberals attacking gun owners with rhetoric, and the punk teenager who plays his music at 300db and wears his damn jeans around his knees (people, there is a new invention, created by tazzygirl, called a belt. USE ONE.


And yet isnt there a case concerning the loudness of music just recently?


Yup. If anything, Zimmerman's acquittal proves it's still Open Season... If you can afford White Lawyers, go ahead, grab a gun and flashlight and go coon hunting.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/15/2013 5:44:51 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1075
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:43:18 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		My post in another thread would get deleted... but.. fuck.. why do you have to bring in racial slurs into this conversation? WTF? Do you feel better for having posted those words?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 1076
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:45:23 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not N*gger Lawyers like everyone else gets.

I think that clears up your views on race very nicely, thank you.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 1077
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:46:36 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		What racial slur? N*gger?

To "The Man", we're all N*ggers. And don't you ever forget it.

SOME N*ggers have black skin. SOME have white skin.

But we're all expendable. SOME N*ggers are just worth-less than others.

But hasn't that always been the case?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1078
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:46:58 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It is painful to say this...

Not for you it isn't. You like saying it. It's almost as if you derive some kind of self-righteous high from it. And from the start of this case, you've never let inconvenient details like the presumption of innocence or the duty of a prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt get in the way. Just like you aren't now.

K.


It's the emotion of white guilt on display, K. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Sad, really.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1079
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 5:49:09 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Zimmerman walked because he could afford White lawyers, and not N*gger Lawyers like everyone else gets.

I think that clears up your views on race very nicely, thank you.

K.


Yeah. Everyone who says "It's not about race" is full of shit. It's all about race. Absent Zimmerman's claims, there's no evidence that Trayvon Martin was a "crazy n*gger who went crazy!", I can't still accept that he just went nuts and unprovoked, attacked Zimmerman.

It's clear to me that Zimmerman, true to form UNLAWFULLY TRIED TO DETAIN MARTIN. And at that point, Martin's resistance was self-defense.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1080
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