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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:04:00 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

That usually applies to people who try to become public figures,not those inadvertently thrust into the limelight.


According to attorney Aaron Larson:[2]
A person can become an "involuntary public figure" as the result of publicity, even though that person did not want or invite the public attention. For example, people accused of high profile crimes may be unable to pursue actions for defamation even after their innocence is established...
A person can also become a "limited public figure" by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest. For example, [jokes about]... Terry Rakolta [an activist who spearheaded a boycott of the show Married With Children] were fair comments... within the confines of her public conduct [and] protected by Ms. Rakolta's status as a "limited public figure".

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:06:28 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

That usually applies to people who try to become public figures,not those inadvertently thrust into the limelight.


According to attorney Aaron Larson:[2]
A person can become an "involuntary public figure" as the result of publicity, even though that person did not want or invite the public attention. For example, people accused of high profile crimes may be unable to pursue actions for defamation even after their innocence is established...
A person can also become a "limited public figure" by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest. For example, [jokes about]... Terry Rakolta [an activist who spearheaded a boycott of the show Married With Children] were fair comments... within the confines of her public conduct [and] protected by Ms. Rakolta's status as a "limited public figure".

I did say "usually.":-)

ETA-That's a real nifty definition right there. So,essentially what this means is that if a news agency wants to say whatever they want about someone or something w/o recourse,all they have to do is publicize them enough.Then they can slander em,threaten em, deliberately manipulate evidence to boost ratings at the expense of another safety and reputation,provided of course,that the agency performing the unethical acts is also making sure the target has become sufficiently prominent through said responsible agencies efforts.

That's a damn neat trick, Gotta admire the Machiavellian bastard that came up with that one.

< Message edited by Kana -- 7/15/2013 10:11:47 AM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:10:30 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Someone apparently thinks that people in the nursing field don't know how to make swelling go down...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Something else no one can answer for me... anywhere... how did Z's nose swelling go down so fast?

Di Maio testified that was a sure sign it was broken,that setting the broken nose will often cause the swelling to go down quickly.Do Miao further stated that a nose unbroken would have remained swollen for days.

I'm not saying it's true.Just relating what the testimony was.

From CNN livefeed:
"Di Maio says he believes Zimmerman's nose was broken and that either Zimmerman or someone on scene could have popped it back into place. Di Maio says that if it was just swelling on Zimmerman's, it shouldn't have gone down in only four hours."



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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:11:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol.... I know... but the case itself pushed him into the "public figure" realm... Im not sure how successful his defamation suits will be. It becomes a 1st Amendment issue at that point. Like criticizing the President, editing his words, mocking him, even wishing him dead.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:12:20 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Which as can be heard on the neighbor's 911 call, was moments after the shot.
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

From CNN livefeed:
"Di Maio says he believes Zimmerman's nose was broken and that either Zimmerman or someone on scene could have popped it back into place. Di Maio says that if it was just swelling on Zimmerman's, it shouldn't have gone down in only four hours."


Thats my problem. I highly doubt paramedics would have reset his nose, the liability would be too great. Could he have reset it himself? Maybe... it would be extremely painful. And it would have been noted.


The EMTs didn't report setting it, and Zimmerman's hands were cuffed behind his back as soon as the first cop got there.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to igor2003)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:13:37 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		No such employment contract (in those words) would be binding.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Depends on the terms of his employment

Do they say he can't reveal when his boss does something illegal?



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 1206
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:16:11 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		If Zimmerman had been a blond haired blue eyed 28 y/o white female with a Kel Tec, would this have played out the same way after the first night?








quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

1-This wasn't about race.


So, if Trayvon Martin was a White Woman, there would have been the same outcome?


If Zimmerman had been black, there would have been the same outcome?


We don't know. Would travon have assaulted a black man? We don't know.
Would Zimmerman have followed a white kid - we don't know. It was black kids that were breaking into apartments. If a white skinhead was roaming around maybe he would have.

Injecting race into this without evidence is corrosive.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:17:30 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

So, medically speaking, based upon the 2 photos of Z from that night, what happened to the swelling.

Soon to be recognized by the Vatican as the third miracle required to grant sainthood to John Paul II ???

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:20:40 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I believe the only reason the Feds are going to push a civil-rights case is to assuage the black community. Nothing more, nothing less, and irregardless of whether or not there really is a case. Like just about everything else about this, it's all smoke and mirrors to placate a population. While I am no fan of Obama, in this case I think he's made the correct call in pushing this. If a civil-rights case is found lacking by a black AG directed to do so by a black President, it will go far in keeping the chance of riots down.


Except that it sets the expectations for the next time and the next time and the time after that.

Obama pushing for ANything is a terrible precedent. It nationalizes what should be a local incident, and it says that we don't trust the people we elected / hired to do the peoples business. Just like the case with the cop and the boston professor obama jumped on the wrong side.



Let me remind all that in 2005 GW Bush rushed back to the WH to sign legislation designed to keep Terri Schiavo plugged in. So, hardly something new or precedent setting by Obama.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:21:21 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

So, medically speaking, based upon the 2 photos of Z from that night, what happened to the swelling.

Soon to be recognized by the Vatican as the third miracle required to grant sainthood to John Paul II ???


Hahahahaha

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 1210
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:21:28 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, they dont, when there is a fracture of the nose, the break in the bone 'bleeds' and the arteries and veins bleed. That causes swelling. You have a great deal of blood in your nose, a great deal. The superior labial and the lateral nasal. And then you got your capillaries and your spider veins.

If Vishnu and Ganesh came down to stop the swelling, set or unset, they couldn't. Ice will reduce it. But there is no stopping the swelling,


A minor crack, no big deal.

40 Years of Golden Gloves as boxer, trainer, coach.......I have seen a lot of nose injuries, a lot.




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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:23:09 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Did I miss the part where anyone in charge has said that federal charges *will* be filed? The feds have had all the evidence since they were called in months ago.

On what facts would they prosecute? That the Florida DAs and politicians lied and played around with the evidence? That witnesses contradicted their earlier statements after meeting with the Martin family attorneys?That Martin called Zimmerman the N word and other racist epithets?

If you don't have proof for a murder conviction, you sure don't have proof for adding hate crime to it.

What federal prosecutor would risk their conviction ratio with a no-win case like this?


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I believe the only reason the Feds are going to push a civil-rights case is to assuage the black community. Nothing more, nothing less, and irregardless of whether or not there really is a case. Like just about everything else about this, it's all smoke and mirrors to placate a population. While I am no fan of Obama, in this case I think he's made the correct call in pushing this. If a civil-rights case is found lacking by a black AG directed to do so by a black President, it will go far in keeping the chance of riots down.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1212
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:25:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OJ won the criminal case, but lost the civil case. He aint the onliest one done that.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:25:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Anyways, about the IT guy. He had his concerns, hired a lawyer, told his lawyer everything. The lawyer then talked to defense about a report. The report wasnt turned over, but a file was. The conversation led the defense to the file, where they pulled the information from.

The Judge still has to rule upon the actions of the Prosecuters office on those charges.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 1214
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:26:28 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

It's been proven that the police did an exemplary job of treating this case like a textbook homicide.


I thought that in the textbooks the police generally arrested the perpetrator of a homicide as soon as it was revealed who'd done it?

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:26:58 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, they dont, when there is a fracture of the nose, the break in the bone 'bleeds' and the arteries and veins bleed. That causes swelling. You have a great deal of blood in your nose, a great deal. The superior labial and the lateral nasal. And then you got your capillaries and your spider veins.

If Vishnu and Ganesh came down to stop the swelling, set or unset, they couldn't. Ice will reduce it. But there is no stopping the swelling,


A minor crack, no big deal.

40 Years of Golden Gloves as boxer, trainer, coach.......I have seen a lot of nose injuries, a lot.





Then where did the swelling go from the crime scene, where we see the huge nose and lots of blood.. to the station house, where very little swelling is seen?

I realize this is a minor point.... but its one I cant shake... something isnt right.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 1216
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:27:41 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		So you think that federal criminal charges of violating someone's civil rights, are the same thing as a 'civil' case?

What shithouse did you get that from?


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

OJ won the criminal case, but lost the civil case. He aint the onliest one done that.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 1217
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:30:32 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		What do you call being immediately placed in handcuffs, taken to the station, read his rights, interrogated for hours including some form of polygraph, and having charges filed with the on duty DA, while the pistol was placed into the evidence facility ? Plus collecting every possible shred of evidence that same night?


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

It's been proven that the police did an exemplary job of treating this case like a textbook homicide.


I thought that in the textbooks the police generally arrested the perpetrator of a homicide as soon as it was revealed who'd done it?



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 7/15/2013 10:31:05 AM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 1218
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:32:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

So you think that federal criminal charges of violating someone's civil rights, are the same thing as a 'civil' case?

What shithouse did you get that from?


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

OJ won the criminal case, but lost the civil case. He aint the onliest one done that.



No genius ex FEDERAL cop. He was sued by the family of one of his alleged victims for being the cause of death and lost.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 10:33:10 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I believe the only reason the Feds are going to push a civil-rights case is to assuage the black community. Nothing more, nothing less, and irregardless of whether or not there really is a case. Like just about everything else about this, it's all smoke and mirrors to placate a population. While I am no fan of Obama, in this case I think he's made the correct call in pushing this. If a civil-rights case is found lacking by a black AG directed to do so by a black President, it will go far in keeping the chance of riots down.

Since DoJ's/FBI's own investigation did not find that Zimmerman had violated any of Martin's Civil Rights and the DoJ sent several people to Stamford FL to aid and abet "Justice For Trayvon" rallies and Zimmerman's arrest and prosecution, IMHO it's going to be kinda difficult for the Feds to push a Civil Rights case.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
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