quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


I dunno about you,but if someone is on top of me,slamming my head into the pavement and I have a weapon,any weapon,knife,gun,stick,rock,whatever,I'm using it.
And they forfeited any right to bitch when they assaulted me.

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with what the word assault means. Once you cipher that out then look up battery. Once you understand the words you are using so ignorantly you might make some meaningful contribution to this discussion.

quote:

Now,as to who committed the initial assault,well,that's where the reasonable doubt comes in...

There is no doubt as to who commited the assault as there is no doubt as to who answered the assault with a battery.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes the guy is a wingnut. To start with I strongly doubt a 9mm short pistol carried on the back of the hip is going to be drawable and deadly against a dog that is actually attacking. He concealed carried to feel like a cop.

You can't do it so if he thought he could there is something wrong with him.
What do you suggest he do, attempt to explain to the dogs that biting people isn't nice?  

quote:

I was kinda under the impression we were still discussing the actual case. I care nothing for the court of public opinion. Why should I?
This is a lynch mob mentality,fueled by lies and speculation by people on all sides with all sorts of agendas, few,if any of which have anything to do with a dead black kid and a latin who's life is toast.
Why should I care what these folk think? They are operating with poor information,lies spread by media outlets, and have baked ideas based on nothing but feelings,innuendo and hate...

quote:

DI MAIO: If you look now at him, notice that swelling appears to be gone. Well, it can't be gone if it's just blood. So this is strongly suggestive of the fact that what he had was a kind of a displaced fracture here and that, when he was maybe examined by the EMS or something, they just pushed it back, either consciously or unconsciously, and so now it's just in place. And it's being held there by the muscle.

quote:

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess
police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That lie has been debunked as well. The NW manual online makes it perfectly clear that their rules do not apply 24/7, just on patrol.

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Then you have the fact that he claimed to be NW but in a situation where he chose to act well beyond the bounds of NW he left his vehicle and pursued a person he believed to a criminal. Did he consider for one second that the "robber" he was tailing might be armed? That the police dispatcher had clearly said to not do so? He was emboldened because he was carrying. That is exactly the wrong sort to even own a firearm.

How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that he was off duty that night so NW rules don't apply.
How many times do you have to be reminded that the dispatcher said he didn't need to follow,  a far cry from don't follow.
The fact that the suspicious person, never referenced as a robber, burglar, or anything but suspicious, may have been armed is a good reason to be carrying. 

You keep saying that over and over. First, I don't think NW people punch a clock. At least here they don't. It is just neighbors watching out for each other and knowing what to look for and whom to call. The moment he started profiling Martin he was acting in his NW role. Off duty? Bullshit.

Here is a link the Florida NW handbook. Can you tell me which page talks about being "on patrol"? I couldn't find it. The part in bold at the bottom of page 4 is interesting. You should never attempt to apprehend a suspect. This is the law enforcement officer’s job. http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/20120710_nwmanual.pdf

Then go on to page 11 and read the "Don'ts".

Don't take the law into your own hands.

Don't approach suspicious people.
You should
never
attempt to apprehend a suspect

Don't stop criminals committing crimes.

Don't pull over cars on patrol or any time.

Don't take unnecessary risks to obtain information on suspicious people or crimes.

Don't hesitate to call police.

If Zimmerman...the NW "captain"...had read the manual and FOLLOWED it, Martin would still be alive.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


I dunno about you,but if someone is on top of me,slamming my head into the pavement and I have a weapon,any weapon,knife,gun,stick,rock,whatever,I'm using it.
And they forfeited any right to bitch when they assaulted me.

Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with what the word assault means. Once you cipher that out then look up battery. Once you understand the words you are using so ignorantly you might make some meaningful contribution to this discussion.

quote:

Now,as to who committed the initial assault,well,that's where the reasonable doubt comes in...

There is no doubt as to who commited the assault as there is no doubt as to who answered the assault with a battery.

I'm sorry.I never learned that lil tidbit re A&B when I was getting my law degree,maybe you could fill me in here,eh...
In most states, assault as a term is freely used in place of A&B,something discussed to death earlier in the thread...my man. The technical term is vernacular.

And if there's no doubt who committed the assault, how come Z is eating dinner as a free man tonight?
How come, despite a prosecution that withheld evidence, has big shot dem lawyers like Dershowitz calling for their disbarment, massive political pressure from state and local officials, an FBI investigation, and an openly hostile judge,six independent American citizens found Z not guilty?

No doubt my ass.The problem with the whole case is based on the fact that doubt was omnipresent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I was kinda under the impression we were still discussing the actual case. I care nothing for the court of public opinion. Why should I?
This is a lynch mob mentality,fueled by lies and speculation by people on all sides with all sorts of agendas, few,if any of which have anything to do with a dead black kid and a latin who's life is toast.
Why should I care what these folk think? They are operating with poor information,lies spread by media outlets, and have baked ideas based on nothing but feelings,innuendo and hate...

You feel its a lynch mob.... many feel they were lied too repeatedly and have issues with being lied too. I said early on had Z been honest about the events most may have been on his side. but the lies were piling up, and most wont support a liar.

quote:

DI MAIO: If you look now at him, notice that swelling appears to be gone. Well, it can't be gone if it's just blood. So this is strongly suggestive of the fact that what he had was a kind of a displaced fracture here and that, when he was maybe examined by the EMS or something, they just pushed it back, either consciously or unconsciously, and so now it's just in place. And it's being held there by the muscle.

A fractured nose would not be addressed medically beyond being noted upon in the EMS report in the field. No mention of a broken nose was made in the EMS report. They indicated a tenderness with minor bleeding. Had they reset his nose, that definitely would have been in the report. Should have, could have, would have... didnt someone else say that? Medical reports were provided as evidence of proof by the defense, yet their report shows no indication of a broken nose or a reset, intentional or otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR

Zimmerman juror B37 interviewed by Anderson Cooper on CNN:

First vote: 3 voted not guilty, one voted guilty of 2nd degree murder, two voted guilty of manslaughter.

Final vote: all depended on the SYG Law and how Zimmerman felt threatened in the final moments when he pulled the gun. Everything else before that moment was irrelevent.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

At this point, it is the incontrovertible physical evidence that seems to be generate the most vociferous denials.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

At this point, it is the incontrovertible physical evidence that seems to be generate the most vociferous denials.

Well it sure sucks when reality comes crashing into a self generated version of the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

At this point, it is the incontrovertible physical evidence that seems to be generate the most vociferous denials.

Well it sure sucks when reality comes crashing into a self generated version of the truth.

Good to see you hold that view.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I do get it,completely. Z's injuries are consistent with TM being on top of Z,pounding his head in the pavement.The gunshot residue confirms it.The bullet angles confirm it.
This ain't Z's words.It's the analysis of one of the best forensic scientists in the world-one who said that forensically this wasn't even a complicated case.
I dunno about you,but if someone is on top of me,slamming my head into the pavement and I have a weapon,any weapon,knife,gun,stick,rock,whatever,I'm using it.
And they forfeited any right to bitch when they assaulted me.

Ya know... I never once argued who shot who.. do why are you bringing that into the question? I am speaking to all the lies before and afterwards... those pesky little things you fellas seem so eager to ignore and dismiss... its those points people will remember.. and judge by.

Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable testimony there is.Surprisingly,this includes the victim.We'd all like to believe that the victim will have the story tied up all nice and neat in a bow. Sadly, that's often not the case. It's absolutely common that Z's story might not be 100% on point,or that it would alter somewhat over time as memory shifts.
That's why I brought up the physical evidence.And I don't recall ever doubting who shoot who, but rather stated that physics and ballistics verify Z's statement re the events of the night.
Hard scientific physical evidence should always trump eyewitness testimony. That was my point

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

At this point, it is the incontrovertible physical evidence that seems to be generate the most vociferous denials.

Well it sure sucks when reality comes crashing into a self generated version of the truth.

Good to see you hold that view.

My version is I dunno.
That's all I've ever said. And anyone who says they know, they be lying.
And a self proven fool, to boot :-)

I find it fascinating that people claim to be so certain (Not you, just in general), that they hang on to proven lies, that they have so much of self invested in something that they have no flexibility in light of facts, that they've predetermined how events went according to some internal monologue.
I also find that mentality truly frightening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I do get it,completely. Z's injuries are consistent with TM being on top of Z,pounding his head in the pavement.The gunshot residue confirms it.The bullet angles confirm it.
This ain't Z's words.It's the analysis of one of the best forensic scientists in the world-one who said that forensically this wasn't even a complicated case.
I dunno about you,but if someone is on top of me,slamming my head into the pavement and I have a weapon,any weapon,knife,gun,stick,rock,whatever,I'm using it.
And they forfeited any right to bitch when they assaulted me.

Ya know... I never once argued who shot who.. do why are you bringing that into the question? I am speaking to all the lies before and afterwards... those pesky little things you fellas seem so eager to ignore and dismiss... its those points people will remember.. and judge by.

Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable testimony there is.Surprisingly,this includes the victim.We'd all like to believe that the victim will have the story tied up all nice and neat in a bow. Sadly, that's often not the case. It's absolutely common that Z's story might not be 100% on point,or that it would alter somewhat over time as memory shifts.
That's why I brought up the physical evidence.And I don't recall ever doubting who shoot who, but rather stated that physics and ballistics verify Z's statement re the events of the night.
Hard scientific physical evidence should always trump eyewitness testimony. That was my point

As, in your mind (along with many others) the 911 recording does not constitute evidence vs. the shooter's 'evidence'?

Such cold, hard, scientific evidence says that a grown-up who has a long history of propensity towards confrontation? a history of seeking out confrontation, and succeeding in that endeavor on numerous previous occasions in beating up his fiance at least three times, attacking his roommate, resisting arrest and assaulting police? harassing neighbors to point of garnering numerous complaints (within that same neighborhood), chasing down people in is vehicle, and having police called on him for that on several occasions etc...?

Shall we go on, here?

Cold, hard, clinical evidence, that is.

"I'm not a doctor, and I don't even play one on TV, ..."

But Zimmerman's minor scratches had nothing on what I witnessed at least four times per year in public school, before I even got out of Jr. HS.

Anyone can have "fear for their life" if they are big enough a chickenshit, which Zimmerman indisputably is. And always has been.

I could have 'legally' killed at least 15 people, before age 17, by this wimpy-ass criteria, for myself alone, probably 25 more if using same excuse for murder in protecting others from assholes like this.

But in any case, to protect Zimmwit from either myself or others in the neighborhood. I just didn't go that route. But if you want to defend this chickenshit MF, go right ahead.

Read his history.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In that short sentence, you just discounted all my years of medical experience. I thank you for that. My questions were not based upon my own lies, but on my knowledge of the human body and the medical field.

But, its cool.. as long as you score points.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I suggest if he was really worried about the dog he carry a conventional pistol when walking in the neighborhood and store it in his vehicle. That way if the dog actually came after he and his he'd actually have a chance. I do not believe a 9mm short is going to penetrate a dog's skull, which is the most likely target if you are attacked except at point blank range which means you're already bit.


So now dogs are tougher than people?
I would have been carrying a .45