RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:07:32 PM)

I have heard of no riots maybe people quit listening to Rev. Al



Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:10:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

As, in your mind (along with many others) the 911 recording does not constitute evidence vs. the shooter's 'evidence'?

Such cold, hard, scientific evidence says that a grown-up who has a long history of propensity towards confrontation? a history of seeking out confrontation, and succeeding in that endeavor on numerous previous occasions in beating up his fiance at least three times, attacking his roommate, resisting arrest and assaulting police? harassing neighbors to point of garnering numerous complaints (within that same neighborhood), chasing down people in is vehicle, and having police called on him for that on several occasions etc...?

Shall we go on, here?

Cold, hard, clinical evidence, that is.

"I'm not a doctor, and I don't even play one on TV, ..."

But Zimmerman's minor scratches had nothing on what I witnessed at least four times per year in public school, before I even got out of Jr. HS.

Anyone can have "fear for their life" if they are big enough a chickenshit, which Zimmerman indisputably is. And always has been.

I could have 'legally' killed at least 15 people, before age 17, by this wimpy-ass criteria, for myself alone, probably 25 more if using same excuse for murder in protecting others from assholes like this.

But in any case, to protect Zimmwit from either myself or others in the neighborhood, I just didn't go that route. But if you want to defend this chickenshit MF, go right ahead.

Read his history.



The 911 call proves beyond any doubt that claims that Zimmerman said the N word, or said that he was calling to complain about a black person walking down the street, et al, are flat out lies.

The validated tape recordings prove that the rest of the hype... 3 shots, shot in the back of the head, shot from several feet away, etc. are equally dishonest.


And the laws of physics completely debunk the nonsense about 'If Martin was on top, Zimmerman would have been soaked in blood'. Only the superstitious notion that the human body is hollow inside would create that.

Several instances of the police coming after Zimmerman within that neighborhood for chasing people in his vehicle? And the prosecution forgot to mention that?

It's over... you didn't get your lynching, and your childish whining simply cinches your reputation.



What people who are *not* warped by hatred hear, is a wanna-be trying to sounds 'professional' and giving the police a 'tip'.



Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:14:22 PM)

Is this the same weapons expert that told us all about '.20' caliber Saturday Night Specials?

At some point, repeatedly pointing out the same facts starts to blur the line between debunking and enabling.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Do you think a 9mm short will penetrate a human skull at 15 or 20 feet? Are you willing to bet your life on that?


Three problems with the post 

1 you don't aim at the head but a central body mass so your question is irrelevant

2 according to this site his gun only comes in 9mm Lugar   

Kel-Tec PF-9www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pf-9


and since this is the manufacturers site your Question is irrelevant


    3  I just told you I would be carrying  a .45  so your question is irrelevant 




    Edwynn -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:14:31 PM)



    Here's the news, folks:

    Zimmerman was NOT LE, clearly had no connection with LE, other than assaulting them and making incessant calls to them, and had presented no appearance on the day in question as anything other than just another a skinhead thug in a loose red sweatshirt.


    If Zimmerman made any attempt to subdue another person, outside of previously stated legal bounds, with out any legal authority whatsoever, then he was guilty of either attempted kidnapping or a host of other things, before we even get to Martin's defense against such assault.

    Which such assault would justify any response on Martin's part per SYG laws in Florida.




    BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:17:21 PM)

    Is this the same weapons expert that told us all about '.20' caliber Saturday Night Specials?

    At some point, repeatedly pointing out the same facts starts to blur the line between debunking and enabling.

    You are talking about him aren't you.



    Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:18:29 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Edwynn



    Here's the news, folks:

    Zimmerman was NOT LE, clearly had no connection with LE, other than assaulting them and making incessant calls to them, and had presented no appearance on the day in question as anything other than just another a skinhead thug in a loose red sweatshirt.


    If Zimmerman made any attempt to subdue another person, outside of previously stated legal bounds, with out any legal authority whatsoever, then he was guilty of either attempted kidnapping or a host of other things, before we even get to Martin's defense against such assault.

    Which such assault would justify any response on Martin's part per SYG laws in Florida.



    But we don't know he did.Hence, the reasonable doubt.
    Other than a lot of inflammatory rhetoric, (Attempted kidnapping? Really?),what factual evidence are you basing the contention that Z confronted and tried to subdue M on?


    Notes that you still haven't addressed my questions.
    Instead, just took another equally inapplicable, as well as inexplicable, tack.



    tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:20:13 PM)

    quote:

    Taz darling, trust me here-that wasn't aimed at you. I don't always agree with you, but you show a willingness to be open, to alter your positions as more is revealed. And I respect,and appreciate that.Why else have a discussion if that's not the case?
    But there are lots of folk on here who aren't, who are still throwing lies out, who are sticking with a predetermined outcome despite the evidence and the verdict.
    Those folk, they be scary people.They have the sort of mindset that creates totalitarianism.


    As most will tell you, I can be an argumentative bitch... however, I do try to look at all sides of an issue,.. despite someone claiming I work for the KKK.

    There are very few that I havent argued with on the boards (I think, to date, Lucy may be the only one... lol.. there might be a few others), but I am very careful with the medical positions I do take. That Doctor, I would have argued with. His understanding of what happens in the field may be out of date... he may not have read the reports... hell, I dont know what he did read at this point.

    I just have so many questions about this whole scenario. I would love for someone to prove to me that Zimmerman is the innocent man he claims to be, but I cant get beyond these issues to see that and no one has shown me any proof that my opinions, based upon medical knowledge, is wrong. I have no disputed the gun shot, or how T didnt bleed out on Z, because that is completely possible.

    Let me show you, in detail, my problem with those photos.

    [image]http://statelymcdanielmanor.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/zimmerman-f-b.jpg[/image]

    Here are the photos from the crime scene. He shows blood on his face and the back of his head. Head wounds bleed terribly, a small cut can produce massive amounts of bleeding. I am not disputing his injuries to the back of his head. Those beneath his nose... give me pause. Why? Where is a mention of a CSF test? His injuries to his nose would definitely be severe enough to warrant a cerebral spinal fluid test (CFS). CFS speads faster than blood, and its a quick indicator that the bones had pierced into his brain. (yes, that can happen). A sheet or a piece of gause beneath the nose, gather the fluids, if a clearer ring expands beyond the blood flow, its a major problem requiring medical attention beyond an EMS squad.

    At this point, I would wonder upon reading that report that the EMS squad was either derelict in their training or they didnt feel a need for that test. So, lets move past that for now.

    Here is the photos from Z in the police station... that same night.. for the other fella who believes people are discussing the next day....

    [image]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60317000/jpg/_60317381_zimmermancomp.jpg[/image]

    The back of the head is still bleeding, as might be expected from puncture wounds. So, I would say yes, they are more than scratches.

    But, the nose... the swelling is reduced dramatically, there is no blood beneath the nose, no drippings, just a slight smear at the left hand corner (his right). All blood was cleaned up at the scene... so why is the back of his head still bleeding but his broken nose isnt? The swelling reduction cannot be explained by a simple resest of his nose. Swelling doesnt go down in a matter of a few hours. Ask any plastic surgeon, the swelling takes days.

    This is but one of the questions... from a medical standpoint, its one that jumps out at me. I cant explain how he can go from one photo to another with such a reduction in swelling.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/zimmerman.fdems.report.pdf

    The report would have indicated any interventions taken to reset the nose.



    Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:20:49 PM)

    He was wearing a nice North Face looking jacket. No sane person could look at those photos and call it a 'loose red sweatshirt'.

    And having brown skin isn't kidnapping, or assault... in fact the only place it is a crime is in the heads of racists.

    I think you've sufficiently proven that you'll tell any lie, and ignore any proof from reality, in order to keep that game going.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Edwynn



    Here's the news, folks:

    Zimmerman was NOT LE, clearly had no connection with LE, other than assaulting them and making incessant calls to them, and had presented no appearance on the day in question as anything other than just another a skinhead thug in a loose red sweatshirt.


    If Zimmerman made any attempt to subdue another person, outside of previously stated legal bounds, with out any legal authority whatsoever, then he was guilty of either attempted kidnapping or a host of other things, before we even get to Martin's defense against such assault.

    Which such assault would justify any response on Martin's part per SYG laws in Florida.






    Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:22:50 PM)

    On that point. There are about 6 here that are trying hard to keep the cross burning by stoking it with the same old lies.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: BamaD

    Is this the same weapons expert that told us all about '.20' caliber Saturday Night Specials?

    At some point, repeatedly pointing out the same facts starts to blur the line between debunking and enabling.

    You are talking about him aren't you.




    Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:24:39 PM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

    quote:

    Taz darling, trust me here-that wasn't aimed at you. I don't always agree with you, but you show a willingness to be open, to alter your positions as more is revealed. And I respect,and appreciate that.Why else have a discussion if that's not the case?
    But there are lots of folk on here who aren't, who are still throwing lies out, who are sticking with a predetermined outcome despite the evidence and the verdict.
    Those folk, they be scary people.They have the sort of mindset that creates totalitarianism.


    As most will tell you, I can be an argumentative bitch... however, I do try to look at all sides of an issue,.. despite someone claiming I work for the KKK.

    There are very few that I havent argued with on the boards (I think, to date, Lucy may be the only one... lol.. there might be a few others), but I am very careful with the medical positions I do take. That Doctor, I would have argued with. His understanding of what happens in the field may be out of date... he may not have read the reports... hell, I dont know what he did read at this point.

    I just have so many questions about this whole scenario. I would love for someone to prove to me that Zimmerman is the innocent man he claims to be, but I cant get beyond these issues to see that and no one has shown me any proof that my opinions, based upon medical knowledge, is wrong. I have no disputed the gun shot, or how T didnt bleed out on Z, because that is completely possible.

    Let me show you, in detail, my problem with those photos.

    [image]http://statelymcdanielmanor.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/zimmerman-f-b.jpg[/image]

    Here are the photos from the crime scene. He shows blood on his face and the back of his head. Head wounds bleed terribly, a small cut can produce massive amounts of bleeding. I am not disputing his injuries to the back of his head. Those beneath his nose... give me pause. Why? Where is a mention of a CSF test? His injuries to his nose would definitely be severe enough to warrant a cerebral spinal fluid test (CFS). CFS speads faster than blood, and its a quick indicator that the bones had pierced into his brain. (yes, that can happen). A sheet or a piece of gause beneath the nose, gather the fluids, if a clearer ring expands beyond the blood flow, its a major problem requiring medical attention beyond an EMS squad.

    At this point, I would wonder upon reading that report that the EMS squad was either derelict in their training or they didnt feel a need for that test. So, lets move past that for now.

    Here is the photos from Z in the police station... that same night.. for the other fella who believes people are discussing the next day....

    [image]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60317000/jpg/_60317381_zimmermancomp.jpg[/image]

    The back of the head is still bleeding, as might be expected from puncture wounds. So, I would say yes, they are more than scratches.

    But, the nose... the swelling is reduced dramatically, there is no blood beneath the nose, no drippings, just a slight smear at the left hand corner (his right). All blood was cleaned up at the scene... so why is the back of his head still bleeding but his broken nose isnt? The swelling reduction cannot be explained by a simple resest of his nose. Swelling doesnt go down in a matter of a few hours. Ask any plastic surgeon, the swelling takes days.

    This is but one of the questions... from a medical standpoint, its one that jumps out at me. I cant explain how he can go from one photo to another with such a reduction in swelling.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/zimmerman.fdems.report.pdf

    The report would have indicated any interventions taken to reset the nose.

    Hey, I dunno what to tell you, other than that a jury of his peers didn't find it sufficient to convict.

    I strongly suspect though, that if it were that critical, the prosecution would have spent days hammering away at it. They certainly wouldn't have skated rather quickly through it.

    ETA-Aaarrrggggh, now the page is all big.Fuck



    tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:28:00 PM)

    quote:

    ETA-Aaarrrggggh, now the page is all big.Fuck


    lol.. it will resest on the next page... all by itself [;)]

    quote:

    Hey, I dunno what to tell you, other than that a jury of his peers didn't find it sufficient to convict.

    I strongly suspect though, that if it were that critical, the prosecution would have spent days hammering away at it. They certainly wouldn't have skated rather quickly through it.


    I read some of the interview with the one juror. I also remember the jury with the OJ trial. Those prosecutors drowned the jury in evidence... this one didnt go far enough. It further makes my case that lawyers are trying medical issues without having medical knowledge... and arrogance can win or lose cases quickly. Does that make someone not guilty? In the eyes of the law, it does. In the eyes of the public, it wont. And that is the reality George has to contend with now.



    DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:31:39 PM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: BamaD

    Do you think a 9mm short will penetrate a human skull at 15 or 20 feet? Are you willing to bet your life on that?


    Three problems with the post 

    1 you don't aim at the head but a central body mass so your question is irrelevant

    2 according to this site his gun only comes in 9mm Lugar   

    Kel-Tec PF-9www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pf-9


    and since this is the manufacturers site your Question is irrelevant


      3  I just told you I would be carrying  a .45  so your question is irrelevant 

      My bad. but even 9mm luger is a pretty pathetic cartridge. And the reason I asked about penetrating a skull is because if you're shooting at a charging dog, the scenario that started this, the skull is the likely target.

      As to you saying you'd carry a .45 that is my point you wouldn't rely on a such a weapon for defense against a dog.



      Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:38:13 PM)

      Grins
      A lawyer once said, "The prosecutions biggest problem with the OJ case was that the LAPD was trying to frame a guilty man."

      Good line.Possibly even true.




      DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:43:30 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Kana

      Grins
      A lawyer once said, "The prosecutions biggest problem with the OJ case was that the LAPD was trying to frame a guilty man."

      Good line.Possibly even true.



      I've always thought those particular LA cops were so used to creating evidence to fit their needs that they simply couldn't do the job straight.



      tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:43:45 PM)


      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Kana

      Grins
      A lawyer once said, "The prosecutions biggest problem with the OJ case was that the LAPD was trying to frame a guilty man."

      Good line.Possibly even true.




      That case was bungled from the get go.... and it was painfully obvious. The mistakes made in this one had many on edge... for the same reasons. I dont believe Z was guilty of murder... maybe not even manslaughter... but he was far from innocent in the actions of that night.



      tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:45:31 PM)

      And its been said that picking the black women specifically because they were black was a massive mistake. One I tend to agree with, and not for the obvious reasons.



      BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:46:56 PM)

      As to you saying you'd carry a .45 that is my point you wouldn't rely on a such a weapon for defense against a dog.

      If it is what I have so it is what I would use.
      Better too much than not enough.
      9mm is the standard sidearm for NATO someone must like it.
      It is more widely carried than the .45
      Not my choice but it was enough for Zimmerman wasn't it.



      BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:48:06 PM)

      Sorry Domken this should have been addressed to Kana
      It may have been a lawyer but I thought it was Dennis Miller



      Edwynn -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:50:59 PM)

      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Kana
      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Edwynn
      quote:

      ORIGINAL: Kana
      Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable testimony there is.
      Surprisingly,this includes the victim.


      Especially in murder cases. I don't disagree there.

      OK, that WAS a joke, right?

      quote:

      We'd all like to believe that the victim will have the story tied up all nice and neat in a bow.



      Especially in murder cases, no doubt. I think I still have some candles around for that, glad that your insistence in this regard justifies my having kept them around.


      quote:

      Sadly, that's often not the case.



      Sadly, indeed.



      As, in your mind (along with many others) the 911 recording does not constitute evidence vs. the shooter's 'evidence'?

      Such cold, hard, scientific evidence says that a grown-up who has a long history of propensity towards confrontation? a history of seeking out confrontation, and succeeding in that endeavor on numerous previous occasions in beating up his fiance at least three times, attacking his roommate, resisting arrest and assaulting police? harassing neighbors to point of garnering numerous complaints (within that same neighborhood), chasing down people in is vehicle, and having police called on him for that on several occasions etc...?

      Shall we go on, here?

      Cold, hard, clinical evidence, that is.

      "I'm not a doctor, and I don't even play one on TV, ..."

      But Zimmerman's minor scratches had nothing on what I witnessed at least four times per year in public school, before I even got out of Jr. HS.

      Anyone can have "fear for their life" if they are big enough a chickenshit, which Zimmerman indisputably is. And always has been.

      I could have 'legally' killed at least 15 people, before age 17, by this wimpy-ass criteria, for myself alone, probably 25 more if using same excuse for murder in protecting others from assholes like this.

      But in any case, to protect Zimmwit from either myself or others in the neighborhood. I just didn't go that route. But if you want to defend this chickenshit MF, go right ahead.

      Read his history.




      And how exactly does any of this diatribe extinguish reasonable doubt?
      Hell, how does it question the validity of the physical evidence?

      And do you really wanna open the history door considering M's? That knife cuts both ways here...

      How does it address my earlier comment re:
      And if there's no doubt who committed the assault, how come Z is eating dinner as a free man tonight?
      How come, despite a prosecution that withheld evidence, has big shot dem lawyers like Dershowitz calling for their disbarment, massive political pressure from state and local officials, an FBI investigation, and an openly hostile judge,six independent American citizens found Z not guilty?

      and why get all "chickenshit MF?"
      No ones using that sort of language at you.Why toss it out?
      In logic, and debate, that's whats called an appeal to emotion, and it's used when one has nothing else. It's kinda a logical Hail Mary

      Those folk, they be scary people.They have the sort of mindset that creates totalitarianism.



      So now I'm a totalitarian.

      I wasn't talking about legitimization for being a Chickenshit MF, you were. I merely called out the action for what it was, in the terms
      of those who participate in such actions.

      I also never spoke about the verdict., or anything of the allowable evidence therein. I have no issue with the verdict at all. Once any hint of the racial card invested itself in the proceedings, it was a dead duck, as should it have been, beyond that point. Zimmerman had attacked so many non-blacks prior to this unfortunate incident, I am 'unfatomabled' how such nonsense as any putative 'racial motivation' could have even been ventured in the first place.
      .
      Zealousman was, is, and always has been a veritable nutjob, and an 'equal opportunity' nutjob, by many accounts prior to this.

      My issue is with the act. Just that. He wasn't satisfied with slapping his girlfriend, assaulting a roommate, tailgating on a regular basis, etc. I'm sure he didn't have "murder in his heart" on this particular occasion, but it's obvious that the trajectory inevitably led him and his actions to this outcome. It was only a matter of time.

      This country gave up long ago having any consideration for its own society.

      I'm not that stupid.












      Edwynn -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 9:53:55 PM)


      quote:

      ORIGINAL: BamaD

      It may have been a lawyer but I thought it was Dennis Miller


      That's freakin' funny, Bama.



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