RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:01:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Seems 4 other jurors are not happy about what the one said last night.

LOL Yeah.. I wonder what parts (maybe all?) of what she said they disagreed with.. I found this article on b37.. she sounds like the bossy (Lucy-type?) half-baked neighbor next door that ya try really hard to avoid.. [:D] I also agree that she was likely angling to get on the jury, given that the first (business) day she already had a book deal.. [8|] I'll bet the other jurors fell off their chairs when they heard about her book (& subsequent interview).. of course now she has said its been cancelled (maybe only for now?).. [;)]

"Both lawyers were visibly cowed by her."
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/07/zimmerman_trial_juror_b37_why_did_prosecutors_let_her_on_the_trayvon_martin.html



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:02:41 AM)

All that comes across is the anger. In every thread. On every subject.
So much anger, chasing away the fear....



Yachtie -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:17:15 AM)

FR-

There's going to be fallout over the Zimmerman affair -

Ben Kruidbos, Corey's former director of information technology, was fired after testifying at a pre-trial hearing on June 6 that prosecutors failed to turn over potentially embarrassing evidence extracted from Martin's cell phone to the defense, as required by evidence-sharing laws.

"We will be filing a whistleblower action in (Florida's Fourth Judicial District) Circuit Court," said Kruidbos' attorney Wesley White, himself a former prosecutor who was hired by Corey but resigned in December because he disagreed with her prosecutorial priorities. He said the suit will be filed within the next 30 days.



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:33:03 AM)

quote:

The reason for that is that the men who founded this country were painfully aware of the oppressive possibilities of an overzealous politically motivated justice system.


I have been reminded throughout this persecution of old oaters wherein the sheriff stood off the lynch mob from the porch of his jail, double-barrel in his hands and six-shooter at his side.
Except, in this case, the politicians fired the sheriff and gave the mob their pound of flesh...



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:36:15 AM)

quote:

My 'idea' of justice says that some nutjob should not be allowed, in any civilized society, to take it upon himself to implement justice by his own individual estimation.


Fuck the idea that you get to define "nutjob"
Fuck a society that does not allow self-defense



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:43:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

David Simon's Blog regarding the Trayvon and the Verdict

You can stand your ground if you’re white, and you can use a gun to do it. But if you stand your ground with your fists and you’re black, you’re dead.

In the state of Florida, the season on African-Americans now runs year round. Come one, come all. And bring a handgun. The legislators are fine with this blood on their hands. The governor, too. One man accosted another and when it became a fist fight, one man — and one man only — had a firearm. The rest is racial rationalization and dishonorable commentary.

If I were a person of color in Florida, I would pick up a brick and start walking toward that courthouse in Sanford. Those that do not, those that hold the pain and betrayal inside and somehow manage to resist violence — these citizens are testament to a stoic tolerance that is more than the rest of us deserve. I confess, their patience and patriotism is well beyond my own.

Behold, the lewd, pornographic embrace of two great American pathologies: Race and guns, both of which have conspired not only to take the life of a teenager, but to make that killing entirely permissible. I can’t look an African-American parent in the eye for thinking about what they must tell their sons about what can happen to them on the streets of their country. Tonight, anyone who truly understands what justice is and what it requires of a society is ashamed to call himself an American.


Bullshit.
The fact is that SYG works for black people too.
SYG and race in Florida
The alternative- that a citizen is required- legally required- to retreat before an assailant- is morally repugnant.



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:46:26 AM)

quote:

a fight that would never have occurred if Zimmerman had not been emboldened by the fact he was armed.


A fight that never would have occurred had not Martin been younger, faster, in better physical condition, more aggressive, and better trained.
There. Fixed it for you.



BBBTBW -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 7:59:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana



1-We don't know that Z "took the matter into his own hands."All available evidence suggests that he was attacked. To suggest that Z acted in a vigilante fashion is to manufacture false facts.
2-Last I checked, as far as I know, in America there are lots of ways to respond to someone following you,none of which involve assault (or, to placate the whackos and hairsplitters, A&B). You can go home (The easiest and best solution), call the cops (What most citizens would do), try to lose the pursuer, or just go about your damn business (Cuz, you know, it's a public area-Z has as much right to be there as M.And vice versa).
The one thing you don't do is assault the person.The second you do that you've shifted from possible victim to, depending on the nature of the attack, felon.

Here's what I wonder?
Had Martin had been a white kid, would people be howling about how Z's civil liberties were being trampled, a poor latin trying to do the right thing, crushed underneath the jackboot of an overzealous prosecution?
I wonder...




1. We only have Mr. Zimmerman's account of his initial encounter with Mr. Martin which makes it one-sided and biased.

2. Mr. Zimmerman instigated this encounter by not complying with what he was asked to do by the 911 operator. Had he complied, this whole incident would never have happened. There is evidence to prove that.

3. The fact that he followed Mr. Martin regardless of the instructions he was given makes him a vigilante. Why is it so hard to consider that Mr. Martin might have felt threatened? Who is to say that Mr. Zimmerman didn't come at Mr. Martin first? There are too many holes and lies in Mr. Zimmerman's account of things to make believable on any level.



Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:00:22 AM)

And we cycle back around... because there has been a long trend in American history to deny self defense... to *some* people.

Spot on that none of these posters would accede to their own demands if *they* were in Zimmerman's shoes.
They'd be lawyering up, trying to hire the best defense they could, demanding their full Constitutional rights, and spinning their story in the light that was in their best self interests.



quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

My 'idea' of justice says that some nutjob should not be allowed, in any civilized society, to take it upon himself to implement justice by his own individual estimation.


Fuck the idea that you get to define "nutjob"
Fuck a society that does not allow self-defense




Raiikun -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:06:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW


2. Mr. Zimmerman instigated this encounter by not complying with what he was asked to do by the 911 operator. Had he complied, this whole incident would never have happened. There is evidence to prove that.




False. There is no evidence that George continued to follow after agreeing not to, and in fact, the encounter started at the same place that George agreed to stop following.



truckinslave -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:11:26 AM)

quote:

Had he complied,


I am a free man. I do not "comply" to every suggestion made to me by random gummint functionaries.
Are you a free woman? Or do you just "comply"?



RacerJim -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:18:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Ya know... I like these definitions....

Law - A guideline that applies to everyone under it no matter which race, religion or troubles you have.

Justice - A decision based on all the facts not just a guideline created to cover everything.

This doesnt bode well for Zimmerman, I fear.

And what about the law and/or justice doesn't bode well for Zimmerman, precisely?



Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:20:10 AM)

LMAO then shouldnt he have taken responsibility for his actions??? for not takin good advice???
A boy is dead because he didnt stay in his truck, by his own(Zs) hand.
Not the consequences he deserves



Raiikun -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:25:34 AM)

George got out of the truck in direct response to being asked where Trayvon was going. Noffke agreed that while that wasn't the intent, that it was reasonable that asking where he was going was an impetus for George to get the answer.

17 seconds later, George agreed that he didn't have to follow.. No evidence exists that George continued to do so, or even knew where Trayvon was anymore until the fight started, with George's truck still in line of sight.



Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:25:51 AM)

Open to interpretation.

The dispatcher said 'Let me know if he does anything else, OK?'. That could be interpreted as 'If he leaves the sidewalk and heads towards some dwellings, let me know'. Or it could be interpreted as 'If he does anything else '*to you*, let me know'.

Then there were questions from the dispatcher regarding location, which way the police should turn, etc. Contrary to popular belief, Zimmerman's position in the NW, was simply to keep a telephone tree, and direct people's questions to the right place. There is no evidence that he had years of patrolling every inch of the subdivision with a spot light, writing up security reports for every address, so getting out to verify building numbers is plausible.

That leaves the distinct possibility that Zimmerman read it as 'Get us the information we need so that this time, 'they' don't get away'.

Then the dispatcher said the 'We don't need you to...' line. Despite all the hype, that isn't an order anywhere in the nation. It is a stock phrase so that when someone gets in the way, or gets hurt, they can't come back and say 'The dispatcher told me to tackle the guy'. When a dispatcher needs someone to stay in the car, they are going to say 'Sir, I need you to stay in your car'.

And every indication is that when the 'We don't need...' sunk in, Zimmerman slowed his roll, and at some point may have been headed back to his car.

My guess would be that Zimmerman heard what he wanted to hear, thought he was 'assisting' the cops by deploying his tactical flashlight, thought he was safe because of his CCW, and ended up on the ground because of it.

But not complying with orders had nothing to do with it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW


2. Mr. Zimmerman instigated this encounter by not complying with what he was asked to do by the 911 operator. Had he complied, this whole incident would never have happened. There is evidence to prove that.




False. There is no evidence that George continued to follow after agreeing not to, and in fact, the encounter started at the same place that George agreed to stop following.





tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:28:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Ya know... I like these definitions....

Law - A guideline that applies to everyone under it no matter which race, religion or troubles you have.

Justice - A decision based on all the facts not just a guideline created to cover everything.

This doesnt bode well for Zimmerman, I fear.

And what about the law and/or justice doesn't bode well for Zimmerman, precisely?


You insist you are an intelligent man, I am sure you should be able to figure it out.



Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:29:19 AM)

Yawwwwwwwwwwn
he made that decision, he took that choice... and followed



mnottertail -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:33:37 AM)

quote:


Open to interpretation.


As are all the other things touted out here as 'facts'.

I obviously have an interpretation that does not align with the jurors decision, based on the evidence (but not necessarily facts) they had to work with.

But it is what it is.



tazzygirl -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:35:44 AM)

quote:

Bullshit.
The fact is that SYG works for black people too.
SYG and race in Florida
The alternative- that a citizen is required- legally required- to retreat before an assailant- is morally repugnant.


Daily Caller?

No thanks. Maybe if they had sources for their information. That "rag" has had enough problems with the truth meter.



Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/17/2013 8:38:36 AM)

yeah they cant hit it, neither can the poster



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