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RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 7/31/2013 7:26:36 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

As Master said, this is one of his favorite things to do! But I don't get angry over it. We just have a friendly debate and a few laughs. I see no reason to get angry over it as much as he tries to get me to get angry.

Well yeah, you are talking about 2 people who know each other intimately. If it works for you, it implies anger is irrelevant.

Again, getting all anal about every little word or thing (including making shit up) on a public discussion board hardly promotes harmony and mutual respect among (allegedly) reasonable people who don't actually know each other at all. No, it's far more likely to disrupt and inflame - and here we are.

quote:

I just am not the angry type of person. Anger just seems so useless to me.

Useless?

It's an emotion, meaning we don't actually get a choice. Sure, degree varies per individual but I've been alive long enough to know that, given the right circumstances and provocation, we're *all* capable of anger. Even when it's not obvious in the usual sense with the passive/aggressive types....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 161

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/2/2013 11:09:09 AM

Secretdamsel

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/23/2013
Status: offline

As a dominatrix I always did...

(in reply to SwitchNSpanky)

Post #: 162

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/2/2013 3:18:40 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

It has been used in our dynamic, but rarely.

Once He used a belt, the rest of the time it has been a hairbrush.

There is no difficulty in differentiating punishment from fun spankings.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to SunTzuSwe)

Post #: 163

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 5:44:10 AM

jola37

Posts: 433
Joined: 7/8/2013
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Interesting related article, probably not new to some of you here but new to me

http://ds-arts.com/academy/discipline.html

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 164

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 10:06:34 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

As Master said, this is one of his favorite things to do! But I don't get angry over it. We just have a friendly debate and a few laughs. I see no reason to get angry over it as much as he tries to get me to get angry.

Well yeah, you are talking about 2 people who know each other intimately. If it works for you, it implies anger is irrelevant.

Again, getting all anal about every little word or thing (including making shit up) on a public discussion board hardly promotes harmony and mutual respect among (allegedly) reasonable people who don't actually know each other at all. No, it's far more likely to disrupt and inflame - and here we are.

quote:

I just am not the angry type of person. Anger just seems so useless to me.

Useless? It's an emotion, meaning we don't actually get a choice. Sure, degree varies per individual but I've been alive long enough to know that, given the right circumstances and provocation, we're *all* capable of anger. Even when it's not obvious in the usual sense with the passive/aggressive types....

Focus.

You cannot control how you feel.
You can, however, control how you behave.

For those interested in clinical trivia: Murray Bowen talked about "differentiation of self"'; the person with a well differentiated sense of self is able to recognize their own emotionality and despite being angry or conflicted etc and act in a way that they believe is the best response to the situation. They choose how to react as opposed to the reflexive knee jerk reaction which provides a cathartic venting, albet it often at a very high price. That's why I think it's better to choose how you react to anger, and interestingly enough when you realize you're making a conscious choice you'll also notice the anger dissipates.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 165

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 10:22:25 AM

UllrsIshtar

Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

You cannot control how you feel.
You can, however, control how you behave.

For those interested in clinical trivia: Murray Bowen talked about "differentiation of self"'; the person with a well differentiated sense of self is able to recognize their own emotionality and despite being angry or conflicted etc and act in a way that they believe is the best response to the situation. They choose how to react as opposed to the reflexive knee jerk reaction which provides a cathartic venting, albet it often at a very high price. That's why I think it's better to choose how you react to anger, and interestingly enough when you realize you're making a conscious choice you'll also notice the anger dissipates.

The interesting thing about that is that you only can't control what you feel if you can't control how you behave.

The more you get the behavioral response to an emotion under control, the more you CAN and will be able to control that emotion.

When you can respond to anger in cool, calm and collected way, the actual emotion you'll be feeling will be far less pronounced, far less explosive, and far less out of control. It's not just the behavior you can control, it becomes the actual emotion itself you can 'tune up or down' in intensity.

I can still let myself go and have an out of control explosive reaction, feeling wise, when I get angry, but I can also reign it in, and feel the anger is far more tuned down, and calm manner. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm less angry, but it does mean that the emotional turmoil inside of me -aside from any behavioral expressions- is something that's completely controllable.

Lots of disciplines target the control of the actual emotion directly, instead of targeting merely the reactive behavior.

It's an absolute self-enduldging myth that you can't control your emotions. What you can't do is control your emotions if you can't control them because you haven't yet learned how to do that, but once you have learned, controlling your emotions isn't really even all that hard.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 166

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 11:46:34 AM

PlayfulLibra

Posts: 7
Joined: 12/14/2011
Status: offline

The majority of the time, they are in fun, but one time he spanked me when he was angry and it was definitely more painful!

I didn't think he was gonna leave me any ass left.

It was still a bit of a turn on, but in that moment I was in panic-mode.

_____________________________

Being funny, it turns out, is like being a bank. It's a confidence trick. As long as everyone believes in you, you are fine.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 167

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 12:36:41 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

It's an absolute self-enduldging myth that you can't control your emotions. What you can't do is control your emotions if you can't control them because you haven't yet learned how to do that, but once you have learned, controlling your emotions isn't really even all that hard.

I completely agree with both this and what evesgrden posted. It took me a lot of effort to learn to control my behavior/reaction to anger (I used to be filled with rage) but now I'm at a place where I recognize when I'm angry, I acknowledge it and voice it, and we talk it through. But the internal rage is gone. And even when I'm really really mad, it doesn't last very long at all, and I don't have a knee jerk reaction to it. What evesgrden's post brought to mind is self awareness to the degree of knowing what you're feeling, when you're feeling it, why you're feeling it, and how to respond to it.

KoM and Kyra have often posted on these boards about not letting emotions control you, but controlling how you respond to your emotions. With enough practice, it becomes second nature, which is why conversations about exploding in anger and lashing out to hurt the other person in fights is very foreign to me. It's not something I relate to anymore.

The Mister and I had several conversations about how we handle anger, before we committed to each other. I asked him a lot of questions about how he deals with anger. He told me he used to be the explosive, hurtful kind, but over the years learned to move away from that, and that it rarely happens anymore. Nobody being perfect, I've seen it happen (not aimed at me), but it's a very rare occurrence. Had he still been the explosive kind, I would not have committed to him.

To this day, I still have some PTSD reactions to people exploding in anger. That's residual shit from my upbringing. It was always my experience that when anger escalates to screaming and shouting results in things being thrown, broken, and people being physically hurt. My former owner used to shout at me when he was mad, and it seemed like it would never stop. I'd cower like crazy. Once I was in bed and we were on the phone and he shouted at me on the phone so much and so long that by the time he hung up (hung up on me), I found myself wedged between the headboard and the mattress. I suppose I had cowered so much I was trying to disappear.

That's not a world I'll ever return to. Shouting is very assaulting to me, and feels very out of control. I wouldn't have committed to someone who responded to anger like that. It's not healthy for me.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 168

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 12:56:04 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
The interesting thing about that is that you only can't control what you feel if you can't control how you behave.

For me, the idea that I could not control my own mind is terrifying. The dominant personality in me thinks, "Man, if I can't even patrol my own front porch I'm just totally screwed." I have VERY little patience with my emotions trying to rule the roost.

Between Carol and I things are different because of our closeness. Sure, I can get angry at her too but it comes attached with a strong bunch of really unhappy feelings like despair, terror, and the like. Being angry at Carol is indicative of the web between us starting to fray and that is a BADTHING(tm). So anger at her tends to come with it's own deterrents built in.

For Carol, she would not be able to be "mine" if she could not control her emotions. Very typically a command from me comes right along with an emotional side... "do X and feel Y about it". Obviously, I expect her to be able to control her own emotions. The only slack on that is she gets more forgiveness for failure on the internal side where there's zero tolerance on the external side. "More forgiveness" though is still a very tightly limited thing and I damned sure better determine there was a solid good-faith effort.

Now... to the point of this thread and since it is a current thing in our lives... As I have always said, the punishment for not being mine is that she doesn't get to be mine (mine in a dynamic sense... divorcing Carol has never been on the table and is unlikely to show up there any time soon). It's an automatic reality based thing. So Carol panicked and broke ranks and now she is "not mine". I don't know if that's punishment but I know she's not very pleased about it.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 169

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 3:53:36 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

This is reminding me of work on Friday. I was sitting at my desk and people in the office were getting upset and riled over something that was going on. So one of my co-workers came up to me and asked me how I stay so cool, calm and collected all the time. I just looked at him and said "Because I don't see any reason to be anything but. Is it really helping your cause while you're upset and angry? Might be easier for you all to have a meeting and talk it out like rational adults".

He just looked at me with wide eyes and said "I wish I could be like you", as he walked away back to his desk. I wanted to tell him he could be and how but I just shrugged my shoulders and went back to work.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 170

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 4:03:53 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
This is reminding me of work on Friday. I was sitting at my desk and people in the office were getting upset and riled over something that was going on. So one of my co-workers came up to me and asked me how I stay so cool, calm and collected all the time. I just looked at him and said "Because I don't see any reason to be anything but. Is it really helping your cause while you're upset and angry? Might be easier for you all to have a meeting and talk it out like rational adults".

And at home... much as I get it that you and Kana aren't quite as into the internal side as I am I have a hard time believing Kana doesn't occasionally say something to you like "Snap out of it" or something else I'd count as an internal command. I'm guessing when he does it's not a suggestion. I'm guessing that when he does he doesn't mean "Pretend to snap out of it in order to humor me."

One of the things that most surprised me when I got into BDSM was the general sentiment expressed by subs "You can tell me what to do but not what to feel." I pretty much feel about that as you and Ishtar do. I see it as terribly self-indulgent not to mention what a problem that becomes from the dom side. I want a happy household and a large part of that is the emotional landscape. If I don't have some reasonable control over both her and my side of that then I'm sort of screwed.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 171

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 4:09:11 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Yes there are times when I'm upset about something and I will just rant to him about it or he can tell because I get quiet and reserved and he sees my mind reeling in circles and he will say something like "stop it now" or give me some kind of spiritual lecture to pull me out of it, which always works because I then feel guilty for straying from my spiritual beliefs and how my mood affects others than just myself. So yes, I can say he controls how I feel many times. Then there are other times when he leaves me be to deal with it in my own way if it's not affecting him or others.

But even when I'm upset I am never angry. I never lash out at others, I don't get into temper tantrums or start screaming and yelling. To me those actions are childish, immature.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 172

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 4:17:49 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

One of the things that most surprised me when I got into BDSM was the general sentiment expressed by subs "You can tell me what to do but not what to feel." I pretty much feel about that as you and Ishtar do. I see it as terribly self-indulgent not to mention what a problem that becomes from the dom side. I want a happy household and a large part of that is the emotional landscape. If I don't have some reasonable control over both her and my side of that then I'm sort of screwed.

Hi Jeff,

I always find this interesting. The Mister does not *want* to control how I feel, because he knows the level of self awareness going on, and when I'm feeling something negatively strong, it becomes a gauge for *both* of us to pay attention to. He does not want to control my inner core, because he finds it would be terribly selfish to do so. Perhaps because that inner core was unhealthily controlled before, and he wants me to keep that.

He doesn't tell me what to feel, but we pay attention to what I feel and why, and he uses that as one of his tools in decision making.

So far, in 4+ years, this has not been a problem (not that I have seen anyway). I mean, yes we've had some problems along the way in our relationship because I've had to wave an emotional "OMG Stop" flag now and then, but I think those times have made us so much stronger together, rather than if I had happily gone along with everything. But then that's my take on it. I'm going to ask him his thoughts about all of this it over dinner tonight. I am now very interested in his position on that.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 173

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 4:22:37 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Yes there are times when I'm upset about something and I will just rant to him about it or he can tell because I get quiet and reserved and he sees my mind reeling in circles and he will say something like "stop it now" or give me some kind of spiritual lecture to pull me out of it, which always works because I then feel guilty for straying from my spiritual beliefs and how my mood affects others than just myself. So yes, I can say he controls how I feel many times. Then there are other times when he leaves me be to deal with it in my own way if it's not affecting him or others.

I get into a rare and occasional rant (usually about work). Next thing I know, he has me laughing my head off and I no longer feel ranty.

quote:

But even when I'm upset I am never angry. I never lash out at others, I don't get into temper tantrums or start screaming and yelling. To me those actions are childish, immature.

I do get angry from time to time but it's very rare, and like you said, there's no tantrum or yelling. That kind of behavior is very far removed from who I am or what I allow into my world.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 174

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 8:08:55 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

So far, in 4+ years, this has not been a problem (not that I have seen anyway). I mean, yes we've had some problems along the way in our relationship because I've had to wave an emotional "OMG Stop" flag now and then, but I think those times have made us so much stronger together, rather than if I had happily gone along with everything. But then that's my take on it. I'm going to ask him his thoughts about all of this it over dinner tonight. I am now very interested in his position on that.

OK we chatted about this over dinner and some wine.

Nope, he doesn't want to control my feelings. He enjoys watching the way I process things, even when it upsets me. He likes my tears, even if they are emotional tears over something he wants or something he is doing. He expects them, and is prepared to deal with them. He expects me to get upset from time to time, or to not like something he's doing. Doesn't mean he's going to change what he's doing, but he *will* change my filters if he needs to.

But overall, he likes that I'm a functioning separate being, with emotions of my own, and when I asked him if life would be easier if he controlled my emotions and I didn't push back or get upset from time to time, he looked at me like I was nuts. I asked him if he thought it was self indulgent of me for having my own emotions and expressing them as I do, and he laughed, and said no, because he's going to do what he wants anyway, and he expects to have to do the work to get me where I need to be at any given time. Meanwhile, he loves my reactions to things, even if they're negative. He said that's what makes me a fully rounded human being, and he loves owning that.

And then he went on to tease me about the way I pout lol.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 175

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/4/2013 8:58:26 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I'm kinda glad that Master can make me change the way I feel and react to things because of my depression. When I start ranting, I start to think about myself instead of Master. I can get stuck in that dark hole again because I start overthinking, overanalyzing. Master understands this and why he does what he does to make me change it. He wants us to be happy and not living in that dark hole and I certainly don't want to drag him down into it with me. If it wasn't for him forcing it I'm not sure I could pull myself out of it on my own.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 176

RE: Do you use spanking/whipping as punishment? - 8/5/2013 12:06:45 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

You cannot control how you feel.
You can, however, control how you behave.

Precisely!

I'm a physically big and strong man. My younger self was around 240lbs and liked to lift big weights as a hobby/interest. Through other aspects of my life such as sport, yeah, I knew all about controlled aggression and harnessing & channelling anger etc.

But on discovering D/s, no, I still never felt it would be a good idea to take to my girl with some form of flogger as a punishment when she'd made me angry. Rather than task myself to control and channel that anger, I found it simpler and saner to remove her from my presence. That bigger considerations were at stake - such as not actually risking hurting her no matter how pissed I might be at her in that moment.

It's what works for *me*, no matter how much others here disapprove of my particular means of control of self and situation.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 177

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