quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

interesting read ?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/columns/the-platform/editorial-coming-soon-to-missouri-stand-your-gravel-bar-law/article_86078bde-d0fb-5af4-90f0-2465e14a28e0.html
On Saturday, Mr. Crocker shot Mr. Dart in the face, killing him in front of his wife and friends, who were floating down the Meramec on a hot summer day.

“My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Mr. Dart’s widow, Loretta Dart, told Post-Dispatch reporter Kim Bell. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face. I watched him be shot in the face and fall down. I watched my husband bleed to death. He was a wonderful man. He didn’t deserve this.”<snip>

Listen to Mr. Crocker’s response after he shot a man dead because one of his friends got out of a canoe on a public river and walked into the woods to urinate.

“I have the power here,” he told Mr. Dart and his friends, according to one of the witnesses. “I have the power.”
Under Missouri law, if the gravel bar in question is indeed his land, he might have a case.

Missouri, like Florida, has a version of a “Stand Your Ground” law, which means a person with a gun on his own property who fears for his life doesn’t have a duty to retreat. He can shoot to defend himself. Even if it’s just to kill a trespassing floater whose friend is answering nature’s call. End of story.

Mr. Crocker has been charged with second-degree murder and is being held at the Crawford County Jail. Here’s what’s likely to happen:

His lawyer will argue self-defense. The floaters were drinking and some of them had river rocks in their hands. The trial will turn on obscure Missouri law regarding gravel bars along rivers and whether they are actually private property. That depends on whether the river was considered navigable. It’s a complicated area of law, according to those who have studied it.

Many Missouri lawmakers have long been protective of the property rights of landowners along the state’s float streams. Some of them have been suspicious of the National Scenic Riverways designation for the Current and Jacks Fork rivers. Much of the Legislature’s paranoia about the nonbinding United Nations Agenda 21 sustainability plan was driven by a fear of U.N. incursion in the Ozarks.

So there’s little doubt that Missouri lawmakers, the same ones who passed a law this year seeking to nullify every federal gun law ever conceived, will come up with a Stand Your Gravel Bar law.

Any suggestion that our gun culture is to blame will be shoved aside as unconstitutional liberal drivel. Never mind that nobody had to die.

Mr. Dart, who lived in Robertsville, was 48. The Army veteran left behind a wife and stepson. He’s dead because somebody had to pee and somebody else had a gun.</snip>
Edited for paragraph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK all water rights listed in the various stories referencing this thread are WRONG.

The real story is this:

Property owners own the land to the middle of the river...but not the water. The water of a navigable stream is free to all for boating and wading. BUT the property owners have riparian rights to the EDGE of the water. Meaning the gravel bar WAS his private property. So anything that happened in this case will be filtered through private property rights.

Here are the rules of Missouri

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK all water rights listed in the various stories referencing this thread are WRONG.

The real story is this:

Property owners own the land to the middle of the river...but not the water. The water of a navigable stream is free to all for boating and wading. BUT the property owners have riparian rights to the EDGE of the water. Meaning the gravel bar WAS his private property. So anything that happened in this case will be filtered through private property rights.

Here are the rules of Missouri

Butch

The rules we are referring to are federal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK all water rights listed in the various stories referencing this thread are WRONG.

The real story is this:

Property owners own the land to the middle of the river...but not the water. The water of a navigable stream is free to all for boating and wading. BUT the property owners have riparian rights to the EDGE of the water. Meaning the gravel bar WAS his private property. So anything that happened in this case will be filtered through private property rights.

Here are the rules of Missouri

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And have no more to do with this case than SYG had to do with Zimmerman... they're media red herring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK all water rights listed in the various stories referencing this thread are WRONG.

The real story is this:

Property owners own the land to the middle of the river...but not the water. The water of a navigable stream is free to all for boating and wading. BUT the property owners have riparian rights to the EDGE of the water. Meaning the gravel bar WAS his private property. So anything that happened in this case will be filtered through private property rights.

Here are the rules of Missouri

Butch

The rules we are referring to are federal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

These are federal laws... from 1820... agreed to for the instillation of the Missouri territories to a state.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

No amount of pointless discussion about waterways and easements is going to take away any American citizen's right to self defense, no matter how badly you wish that right to be reserved for the elite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That phrase or that case you cite isnt used in Skinner. No clue what you are on about.

TENNESSEE, Appellant, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al. MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, et al., Petitioners, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al.

471 U.S. 1 (105 S.Ct. 1694, 85 L.Ed.2d 1)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You need to read it as well and you will see the answer to your question. Boring but it is all there spelled out very clearly.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Dom....you need to read through the appropriate sections... The link IS the law on recreation rights and property owners. It exactly covers this case as to property rights and recreational rights and it is spelled out clearly if you take the time to read through it.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And have no more to do with this case than SYG had to do with Zimmerman... they're media red herring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK all water rights listed in the various stories referencing this thread are WRONG.

The real story is this:

Property owners own the land to the middle of the river...but not the water. The water of a navigable stream is free to all for boating and wading. BUT the property owners have riparian rights to the EDGE of the water. Meaning the gravel bar WAS his private property. So anything that happened in this case will be filtered through private property rights.

Here are the rules of Missouri

Butch

The rules we are referring to are federal.

The side conversation started with people wondering if the guy had a right of exclusion on the gravel bar. He does not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Dom....you need to read through the appropriate sections... The link IS the law on recreation rights and property owners. It exactly covers this case as to property rights and recreational rights and it is spelled out clearly if you take the time to read through it.

Butch

Which pages? That is a fairly long PDF.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I did and I agree... that means the gravel bar was private property.

Butch