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RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 5:36:40 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		You brought up an interesting point chatterbox.
I've seen that in this part of the country as well.
I wonder if the landowner was a long time resident or a 'transplant'.

It doesn't affect the case legally in any way at all but it might explain the attitude.

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RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 5:40:13 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You brought up an interesting point chatterbox.
I've seen that in this part of the country as well.
I wonder if the landowner was a long time resident or a 'transplant'.

It doesn't affect the case legally in any way at all but it might explain the attitude.



All the neighbors in the area who own quite a bit of land, these lands had been in the same families for generations, same as the land we sold. The buyer was a transplant.

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RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:04:50 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		I just can't understand who is more insane, if the floaters that spent more than one second arguing with the creepy guy with a gun, or the "drop the stone or I shoot your friend" man.
You must have a lot of mild driving collisions that end in a bad fight there.

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Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:38:39 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Crocker told police the shooting came as the culmination of a dispute over whether the group was trespassing or not, and he fired after a man approached him with rocks in his hands. Paul Dart wasn’t the one with the rocks.

“I just shot the one closest to me,” Crocker said, according to police.

.......

Then, Loretta Dart said, her cousin picked up a rock. (Crocker told police the man had a rock in each hand.) Her husband stood between her cousin and the gunman.

“My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Loretta Dart said. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face.”



I would be shocked if a former ranger (according to his son) believed that going for Crocker's arm was going to "calm things down".

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:40:19 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Is that all the rebuttal you have? Crocker showed up, brandished the weapon and fired it twice before the fatal confrontation. The people were on an area where there are easement rights for the public, so they had legal access. Castle Doctrine will not play since the people had legal access. Self defense will not play since he confronted them and assaulted them first.

The guy is toast and there is no dream sequence here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By 'appearing'? In a puff of smoke?

ROTFLMAO!!! Dream on.





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RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:44:53 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I would be shocked if a former ranger (according to his son) believed that going for Crocker's arm was going to "calm things down".


Might want to read that again for a better understanding of what the woman said, instead of reading what you want to read.

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Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:56:41 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Is that all the rebuttal you have? Crocker showed up, brandished the weapon and fired it twice before the fatal confrontation. The people were on an area where there are easement rights for the public, so they had legal access. Castle Doctrine will not play since the people had legal access. Self defense will not play since he confronted them and assaulted them first.

The guy is toast and there is no dream sequence here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By 'appearing'? In a puff of smoke?

ROTFLMAO!!! Dream on.





NOT A RESPONSE TO ANYONE
A couple of things to think about.
1 How did he know they were there?
2 That part of the river was being occupied by so many "partiers " being drunk and disorderly that some of the neighbors couldn't go to the river on their own property,
3 The warning shots can be seen and will be portrayed as a desire to avoid shooting anyone.
4 A ex ranger would know that swiping the gun aside would escalate things, not calm them down.
5 When the "experts" say that it is often hard to see were the public area end you can't expect a backwoods farmer to make that judgment in the heat of the moment.
6 How much alcohol had the floaters consumed?
I AM NOT SAYING INNOCENT JUST POINTING OUT MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH MAY VERY WELL LEAD TO MANSLAUGHTER NOT MURDER


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 9:58:58 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		That has nothing to do with my post.

I was responding to the claim that simply walking around removes the right to self defense because it is 'aggression'. That was debunked in the Zimmerman trial, and it is equally untrue here.

Shooting at people is an entirely different matter but simply 'appearing' on your own property isn't an assault.





quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Is that all the rebuttal you have? Crocker showed up, brandished the weapon and fired it twice before the fatal confrontation. The people were on an area where there are easement rights for the public, so they had legal access. Castle Doctrine will not play since the people had legal access. Self defense will not play since he confronted them and assaulted them first.

The guy is toast and there is no dream sequence here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By 'appearing'? In a puff of smoke?

ROTFLMAO!!! Dream on.







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Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:00:55 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I would be shocked if a former ranger (according to his son) believed that going for Crocker's arm was going to "calm things down".


Might want to read that again for a better understanding of what the woman said, instead of reading what you want to read.


My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Loretta Dart said. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face.”

Nope just what I thought she said.
His son said, apparently in another article that you haven't seen, that he was a former ranger.
So yep my statement was accurate.



_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:01:56 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Didn't you just say that a history of property problems justified shooting someone in the back, after chasing them down the road and off your land?

Maybe this guy had been putting up with the locals using his land as a party dump for a while.


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You brought up an interesting point chatterbox.
I've seen that in this part of the country as well.
I wonder if the landowner was a long time resident or a 'transplant'.

It doesn't affect the case legally in any way at all but it might explain the attitude.



All the neighbors in the area who own quite a bit of land, these lands had been in the same families for generations, same as the land we sold. The buyer was a transplant.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:08:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I would be shocked if a former ranger (according to his son) believed that going for Crocker's arm was going to "calm things down".


Might want to read that again for a better understanding of what the woman said, instead of reading what you want to read.


My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Loretta Dart said. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face.”

Nope just what I thought she said.
His son said, apparently in another article that you haven't seen, that he was a former ranger.
So yep my statement was accurate.




Try again.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:42:54 AM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
This whole thing got started by urinating in public, which I think is illegal. Not to mention indecent exposure. If a guy is drunk enough to try to take on a gunman, who knows what would happen if the drunk did get the gun? Would it be reasonable to assume he was impaired, and pissed enough to shoot the farmer?

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Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:43:27 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		hardly public.

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Profile   Post #: 273
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 10:52:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Would it be reasonable to assume he was impaired, and pissed enough to shoot the farmer?


Shoot the farmer with what?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 11:13:59 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


This whole thing got started by urinating in public, which I think is illegal. Not to mention indecent exposure. If a guy is drunk enough to try to take on a gunman, who knows what would happen if the drunk did get the gun? Would it be reasonable to assume he was impaired, and pissed enough to shoot the farmer?

No. The guy went into the woods which shows intent not to indecently expose himself or urinate in public.

The crazy shithead murderer then attacked his party with a deadly weapon. They certainly had a right to defend themselves or Zimmerman didn't.

(in reply to papassion)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 11:22:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Would it be reasonable to assume he was impaired, and pissed enough to shoot the farmer?


Shoot the farmer with what?



A stream of piss, it would seem. Do we know if the penis was big enough to be considered a deadly weapon? Was it described as a sealclubber, as mine is?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 12:49:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Oh no! Nothing could compare to yours!

~do I get that shiny piece of metal now?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 12:55:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I would be shocked if a former ranger (according to his son) believed that going for Crocker's arm was going to "calm things down".


Might want to read that again for a better understanding of what the woman said, instead of reading what you want to read.


My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Loretta Dart said. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face.”

Nope just what I thought she said.
His son said, apparently in another article that you haven't seen, that he was a former ranger.
So yep my statement was accurate.




Try again.

Surely you are not trying to say that going for his arm will calm things down or that a former ranger is so out of touch as to think it will.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 1:17:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		She never said he was going "for" his arm.... or are you not wanting to see that?

I can go to someone's side, and not be attacking them... I can go for someone's side and be attacking.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/26/2013 1:19:20 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Didn't you just say that a history of property problems justified shooting someone in the back, after chasing them down the road and off your land?

Maybe this guy had been putting up with the locals using his land as a party dump for a while.


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You brought up an interesting point chatterbox.
I've seen that in this part of the country as well.
I wonder if the landowner was a long time resident or a 'transplant'.

It doesn't affect the case legally in any way at all but it might explain the attitude.



All the neighbors in the area who own quite a bit of land, these lands had been in the same families for generations, same as the land we sold. The buyer was a transplant.




That is not what I said. You have no idea what you are talking about at all. Its prime well taken care of property.
Would you like to go hunting and see?
I think I will leave you to debate with yourself now.


_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 280
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