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DomKen -> RE: Benghazi (8/5/2013 9:36:33 PM)
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ORIGINAL: BamaD
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ORIGINAL: DomKen
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
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ORIGINAL: DomKen
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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Wrong again.
Do you even bother to read the links I provided?
In the off chance you actually care (occassionally about facts)
1. Ready squadrons are kept on alert at US air bases. No, it doesn't take hours to round up flight crews.
2. As it said in the link - you brief the pilots and establish radio frequencies etc during the ferry to Sigonella.
3. The hot flash reload at sigonella takes 1.08 hours. You do know they practice these things right? Because the ability to do multiple sorties in a day is critical capacity for air power. The US has, when situations required, gotten 4 sorties a day.
4. The f-16 pilot did not say they couldn't strafe benghazi - he said that as a worst case scenario they could ferry to sigonella if required.
5. Its actually 40 minutes or so to fly, not an hour. Total airtime on an f-16 is around 5 hours - so with 80 minutes on there and backagain - that leaves 3 hrs 40 minutes on station.
But regardless - I said send a squadron. Whatever it takes to keep cap until people are evacuated.
The only link you presented was some blogger who claims he was a pilot. That stuff doesn't convince me.
Ready squadrons are not kept fueled and armed. That is only done at DefCon 3. We haven't been at 3 since 9/11. We certainly do not keep planes prepped for ferry runs.
So yes you would have to get air crews together, figure out the mission, prep the planes and brief the pilots.
That takes at least an hour plus however long it takes to get the air crews working and for the pilots to get ready.
Then you get to Sigonella, there are no fighter squadrons there and no air crews experienced with F-16's, the Navy does not fly them. So it will take a lot longer to refuel and load ordinance onto the planes. Landing a full squadron would involve a lot more time as those planes would be circling and landing as the runways were clear. At something like midnight local time the air crews could be expected to be fatigued so either everything would take longer or safety would be sacrificed which the Navy does not do. So it would take significantly longer than a mid day refuel stop or even a daylight re arm when F-16 air crews were assigned to the base. And that still assumes Sigonella had the weapons available. Since the Navy does not resupply aircraft ordinance on carriers by plane I still think that is unlikely.
So it is still at least 5 hours and likely a couple of hours more than that. And you still failed to present any evidence that the guys on the ground were able to see much less designate the mortar position.
And you gave no links, Factless Ken, so once again your words are your opinions with no facts. Dust in the wind. I know for a fact we keep air crews on alert, to scramble for airspace intrusions, s & r, etc. I've seen it and we weren't at no defcon 3.
And as for a blogger - who has a history of writing on f-16 and military ops - I think his postings carry a great more weight than yours.
Just to correct a bit more idiocy of yours
Here's some quotes:
Although a tenant of the Italian Air Force, NAS Sigonella acts as landlord to more than 40 other U.S. commands and activities.
Among the aircraft that fly from this island base are U.S. Air Force C-130, C-17 and C-5 airlifters, KC-135 and KC-10 tankers and U.S. Navy P-3 Orions, C-2 Greyhounds C-130s, and C-9B Skytrain IIs and C-40A Clippers, and Italian Air Force Breguet Br.1150 Atlantics. It is one of the most frequently used stops for U.S. airlift aircraft bound from the continental United States to Southwest Asia and the Indian Ocean.
Read the bit where it houses TANKERS?
I've presented plenty of links and you ignored them all why would I bother reposting them?
Also I never denied there were tankers in Sigonella. I have repeatedly said the only realistic way to run the mission would be with mid air refueling over the Med. Do you not understand that would mean tankers from Sigonella?
And since the you have been claiming the mission was impossible due to the lack of refueling capability does this mean that you now see it was indeed possible? Or do you still fly in the face of logic?
I've always said the timing was impossible. Not that the other aspects of the mission.
To walk people through it again.
The attack started at 9:40PM (all areas in question are in the same TZ) on a Tuesday. So no alert could have reached Sigonella and Aviano before probably just before 10PM. Air crews and pilots are recalled while a mission is formulated, at least a half hour.
Planes must be taken from cold to fully fueled and armed, at least an hour for the F-16's slightly longer for the tankers.
Tanker get s airborne and heads for station over the Med. F-16's take off but do not pass point of no return until the tanker is in position, roughly another hour.
F-16's approach tanker and refuel, another half an hour to an hour depending on numerous variables.
F-16's fly to Benghazi another half hour or so.
So the aircraft could not have reached the area until long after the consulate was evacuated but long before there was a mortar setup and with no one at the CIA compound ever seeing the mortar there is still nothing but indiscriminate bombing of a friendly town for the F-16's to do.
And finally since there was no reason to expect this attack to last 8 hours it is unlikely that such a relief plan would have been considered until it became clear this was a determined attack which wasn't apparent to anyone until the relief convoy was attacked returning to the CIA compound which pushes any such relief sortie past the time they know the relief forces from Tripoli would arrive and the evac of the CIA compound was scheduled to begin.
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