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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:18:37 AM   
Phydeaux


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Here's a bit more for you:

Intelligence:

"As to which aircraft, there are a number of options. American reconnaissance aircraft routinely patrol the Mediterranean, including Air Force RC-135 and Navy EP-3 signals intelligence aircraft. In the EUCOM theater, RC-135s operate from RAF Mildenhall in the UK, while EP-3s have long been based at Souda Bay, Crete. Scrambled from those locations, an EP-3 or RC-135 could have been off the Libyan coast in two or three hours, providing additional coverage of communications between terrorist elements involved in the attack. However, it is unlikely these assets were sitting alert, and any reporting from these platforms likely came from previously scheduled missions that coincided with the consulate attack.

Other recon possibilities include U-2 aircraft and Global Hawk UAVs. U-2 pilots have been flying over Libya--off and on--for decades. In years past, U-2s on Mediterranean missions have operated from Lajes Field in the Azores and an RAF base on Crete. Given the amount of time required to prep a U-2 pilot (and jet) for a mission, any coverage by that platform would have involved an aircraft already slated for a Libyan mission, or re-routed from other tasking in the region. As for the Global Hawk, it can remain over a target, at high altitude, for more than 24 hours, relaying information to ground stations in the U.S. and Europe.

Whatever platforms were overhead, they added to the overall surveillance picture emanating from Benghazi. As we've noted previously, there was no shortage of information available to decision-makers in Washington, DC (and elsewhere). Command nodes at the White House, the Pentagon and the State Department--along with various military headquarters--had access to the information, which included urgent SIGINT reporting, relayed by the National Security Agency (NSA), from airborne and ground-based listening posts focused on the Middle East.

According to Fox News military analyst (Ret) Colonel David Hunt, we also had a steady stream of information from inside the consulate, thanks to an open microphone in the radio room. Members of the consulate staff provided a virtual play-by-play of the assault, which continued even after terrorists stormed the compound. Urgent radio traffic from Benghazi was monitored continuously at the State Department and likely available at the White House and Pentagon as well. That information, along with FLASH/CRITIC messages from NSA, provided early details of what was going on inside the diplomatic compound--and what terrorists involved in the attack were saying. And when the Predator arrived, there was a continuous video stream as well--also available to decision-makers in Washington, including the Commander-in-Chief.

Simply stated, Mr. Obama and his national security team had a pretty good idea of what was going on at the consulate in Benghazi, and the arrival of each reconnaissance asset provided more details. So, given the relatively high degree of granularity, what were our military options, and why was no action taken?"


Other news sources have said that there were two predator drones and other reconnaisance aircraft providing live feed..


You remember that add about the red phone ringing at 3am?
"In retrospect, there were no "optimum" actions for the situation in Benghazi, but the U.S. was not without options. Of course, it became more difficult to reach a consensus after the Commander-in-Chief went to bed, before the battle was over. "

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:22:50 AM   
Phydeaux


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Spectre gunships:

Multiple sources relayed

"The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told to wait, among them Delta Force operators. "

Sigonella is 2 hours flight time for ac-130s.

"There were two AC-130Us deployed to Libya in March as part of Operation Unified Protector.


The AC-130U is a very effective third-generation fire-support aircraft, capable of continuous and extremely accurate fire onto multiple targets. It has been used numerous times in Iraq and Afghanistan to save pinned-down allied forces, and has even been credited with the surrender of the Taliban city of Kunduz"

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:28:20 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

You know, the bottom line for me - is the US government didn't even try to save this men.
And for politics. Obama killed these men to get re-elected.

Africom was *ordered* to stand down. When they refused, the commander in chief was relieved of duty.
The commander of the Stennis was relieved of duty.

A lie and not even one that is hard to disprove.
http://www.examiner.com/article/debunking-the-case-of-general-carter-ham-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Ham


Not a lie. Even your link admits it doesn't really know what happened.
You have a number of misrepresentations. The Commander of Africom is a 3 year term of duty that is normally renewed. Ham was relieved 18 months into it.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/rumors-of-general-ham-being-relieved-could-be-true

"A spokesperson for the Navy declined to give details on the allegation, but Stars and Stripes reports that ”it is highly unusual for the Navy to replace a carrier strike group commander during its deployment.”

The news comes just two days after Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced the replacement for Gen. Carter Ham, who was serving as commander of U.S. Africa Command. ”

Details are scarce, but some can’t help wonder about the timing of these military shake-ups."

Highly unusual as in - it hasn't been done in 50 years.

Tours are 2 years not 3. As you can tell by simply looking at his biography on wiki or any number of other sources. He was not relieved and did not retire early.
quote:

quote:




As to the USS Stennis she was no where near Benghazi. That is another lie circulated by the right wing echo chamber. She left home port in Washington state on Aug. 27 and was in the Indian Ocean prior to relieving Enterprise in the 5th Fleet (Persian Gulf). I've done quite a bit of looking and there was no US carrier in the Med at the time. You can look here and see for yourself
http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html


And your link doesn't actually have any information on the location of the stennis. It says it entered the area of responsibility of the 7th fleet.
It does, interestingly enough say that it received orders to return to base on Sep-11, 2012. The day of the attack.

I didn't know what to make of the stennis story - thats why I haven't been discussing it. However, the commanders of the US Navy's 5th fleet website says:

U.S. 5TH FLEET AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY -- Senior officers from U.S. Central Command embarked aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), to meet with the leadership and crew, Nov. 30.

Vice Adm. John Miller, commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command/U.S. 5th Fleet/Combined Maritime Forces, addressed the crew during an all hands call on the flight deck while Lt. Gen David Goldfein, commander, U.S. Air Forces Central Command addressed the squadrons of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 9.

“Stennis is the lone representative of naval aviation in the U.S. 5th Fleet and we’re grateful to have you and put you to good use,” said Miller during an all hands call.

Nope.
Here are the only entries for Stennis on 9/11/2012
quote:

11Sep2012, entered the U.S. 7th Fleet Area of Responsibility
11Sep-29Sep2012, Westpac

Which means she was near Japan. Which is half way around the world from Libya. I have no idea what got the Admiral relieved but it clearly wasn't trying to launch a strike on Benghazi.

quote:

quote:




quote:

They never even tried to save these guys.

Actually they did. The security contractors in Tripoli were flown out when the attack began and one of those guys was one of those who died.


Actually they didn't. The CIA people defied orders twice. Which is why Hicks testified that the military commander of the relief force that DIDNT get sent said that it was the first time ever he'd seen diplomats have more balls than military.

Regarding the CIA disobeying -:
"CIA personnel led by ex-Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods, who later lost his life in the attack during the September 11 Ansar al Sharia attack on U.S. installations in Benghazi, disobeyed orders to "stand down." Defying orders, Woods and other CIA personnel braved enemy fire to return to the consulate to rescue Ambassador Chris Stevens and information officer Sean Smith. Hours later, as the battle continued at the CIA annex one mile from the consulate, requests for laser-targeted fire from a Specter gunship, and additional support from special forces in Signonella, Italy, were repeatedly denied by unknown U.S. Defense and State Department officials.

This new information, as first reported by Fox News, may clarify the motivation for the lengthy time period during which Obama administration officials insisted that the incident was a spontaneous riot of local people objecting to the controversial Innocence of Muslims film.

More made up BS. You cannot present any evidence that the CIA personnel were ordered to stand down and to not relieve the consulate.

The fact is the security contractors from Tripoli flew out and did assist in the defense of the CIA compound, that's how one them got killed.

BTW those 4 SpecOps guys who didn't fly out there that you claim were operating a MG when they were killed, you figured that fantasy out yet?

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:29:13 AM   
mnottertail


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According to Fox News military analyst (Ret) Colonel David Hunt.




_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:39:59 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What you and i see in that video is worlds apart.

And quoting the airforce about aircraft shows a SERIOUS lack of depth on the subject. Google, F4 and dog dighting, the A1 skyraider, the history of the A10, and the Marines opinion of the Air Force.



I wonder if the part in red was typed with a straight face?

The Air Force isn't a good source for aircraft? Well, whatever, I guess.

I don't know much about the F-16 or any specific aircraft but I do know that the people in the USAF know more about them than me (or most people, here)

Well, if you want to start understanding, a great education can be had by googling F20 Tigershark.



Regards,



Chuck Yaeger


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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:46:27 AM   
SimplyMichael


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An F16 at night verses ground targets hugged up tight against friendlies is worse than useless, can you imagine how much bitching these guys would be doing if the F16s had accidentaly killed friendlies?

Now AC130s live for the dark, unlike when Bush used them in daytume till too many got shot down. So, WERE there any Spectres in Italy? My understanding is most are based here.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:50:57 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Again, quoting the ultimate f-16 website:

The aircraft’s conformal fuel tanks carry more fuel, and their 40% range increase gives the planes a mission radius of 1,025 miles. Those larger tanks will feed GE’s new F110-GE-132 engine, which produces up to 32,500 pounds of thrust to offset the plane’s increased weight. The 132 is a derivative of the proven F110-GE-129, a 29,000-pound thrust class engine that powers the majority of F-16 C/D fighters worldwide.

This means that the planes could take off from avianno, 1200 miles fly to benghazi, perform a combat mission and return to sigonella (475 miles) while still under their combat range (375 miles under it). Without external tanks.

And it really doens't matter what you arm chair generals think - I provided a link from a decorated f-16 pilot who said that f-16's could EASILY have gotten there in time - even if they chose the lank in sigonella option.


You got any evidence the 2 squadrons at Aviano actually fly those F-16E's that have the new engines? According the squadron factsheets they both fly the older F-16C's.
http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4352
http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4353

It is really time you realized that F-16's couldn't do the mission without tankers and would have been of next to no help once they did arrive. We were not going to bomb a friendly town and we never saw the mortar that actually killed the 2 security contractors so we couldn't have bombed it.


Oh sure - use a source from 2009 to say that Aviano had old planes.

Even a block 40 has a ferry range of more than 3000 miles with external tanks- and the ferry range of the block 40's and the block 60s are the same.

And the 555 was deployed to aviano in 1999 with block 40s. And since all f-16's were slated to get updates.... the odds are very good they were in fact updated.

And it really doens't matter what you arm chair generals think - I provided a link from a decorated f-16 pilot who said that f-16's could EASILY have gotten there in time - even if they chose the lank in sigonella option.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:53:25 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

An F16 at night verses ground targets hugged up tight against friendlies is worse than useless, can you imagine how much bitching these guys would be doing if the F16s had accidentaly killed friendlies?

Now AC130s live for the dark, unlike when Bush used them in daytume till too many got shot down. So, WERE there any Spectres in Italy? My understanding is most are based here.



No info is being released. We have a squadron of them in Sigonella. However, there were also 2 spectres detailed to libya in March. No return date or other mission is listed for them.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 11:55:00 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

According to Fox News military analyst (Ret) Colonel David Hunt.





No. Hunt was used for expert opinion. He was not the source of the reporting.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 12:00:49 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The fact is the security contractors from Tripoli flew out and did assist in the defense of the CIA compound, that's how one them got killed.

BTW those 4 SpecOps guys who didn't fly out there that you claim were operating a MG when they were killed, you figured that fantasy out yet?



I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Woods and Daughterty were both killed after refusing orders to stand down. One up top manning a machine gun when a mortar - the second or third shot - dropped on him. Both of them were ex-special forces.

I have never said anything other than that. I have said that both gentlemen had access to weapsons that weren't sidearms. I think a machine gun pretty much isn't a sidearm.


The accuracy of the mortar fire means that the mortars were preranged and preplanned - aka - it WASN'T a "spontaneous mob". With mortars. And Roadblocks.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 12:14:08 PM   
Phydeaux


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Clearly you don't understand evidence. I already provided evidence that woods and daugherty were ordered to stand down. Go look again.

Word from Spec Ops insiders is that Tyrone Woods was ”painting the target” with a laser, meaning they believed that they were backed up by the syncing of the C130 or drone on station overhead. They expected that by revealing their position with the laser on the enemy mortar crew a laser guided missile would be on its way to defend them. Instead?


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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 12:49:56 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Again, quoting the ultimate f-16 website:

The aircraft’s conformal fuel tanks carry more fuel, and their 40% range increase gives the planes a mission radius of 1,025 miles. Those larger tanks will feed GE’s new F110-GE-132 engine, which produces up to 32,500 pounds of thrust to offset the plane’s increased weight. The 132 is a derivative of the proven F110-GE-129, a 29,000-pound thrust class engine that powers the majority of F-16 C/D fighters worldwide.

This means that the planes could take off from avianno, 1200 miles fly to benghazi, perform a combat mission and return to sigonella (475 miles) while still under their combat range (375 miles under it). Without external tanks.

And it really doens't matter what you arm chair generals think - I provided a link from a decorated f-16 pilot who said that f-16's could EASILY have gotten there in time - even if they chose the lank in sigonella option.


You got any evidence the 2 squadrons at Aviano actually fly those F-16E's that have the new engines? According the squadron factsheets they both fly the older F-16C's.
http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4352
http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4353

It is really time you realized that F-16's couldn't do the mission without tankers and would have been of next to no help once they did arrive. We were not going to bomb a friendly town and we never saw the mortar that actually killed the 2 security contractors so we couldn't have bombed it.


Oh sure - use a source from 2009 to say that Aviano had old planes.

Even a block 40 has a ferry range of more than 3000 miles with external tanks- and the ferry range of the block 40's and the block 60s are the same.

And the 555 was deployed to aviano in 1999 with block 40s. And since all f-16's were slated to get updates.... the odds are very good they were in fact updated.

And it really doens't matter what you arm chair generals think - I provided a link from a decorated f-16 pilot who said that f-16's could EASILY have gotten there in time - even if they chose the lank in sigonella option.


That's the air forces own page for those squadrons. You got a better source?

It is pretty rare that planes get new engines of an entirely different model. So I will need a reference that says they were putting F-16E model engines in F-16C's.

How many times do I have to tell you this ferry range is of no use as it represents a plane fitted with nothing but droptanks and no weapons. What matters is combat radius and your own sources say that even a minimally loaded F-16 cannot make the trip without tanker support which greatly increases the amount of time before the planes, which couldn't have done anything useful anyway, got there.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 12:51:44 PM   
mnottertail


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According to Fox News military analyst (Ret) Colonel David Hunt, we also had a steady stream of information from inside the consulate, thanks to an open microphone in the radio room. Members of the consulate staff provided a virtual play-by-play of the assault, which continued even after terrorists stormed the compound. Urgent radio traffic from Benghazi was monitored continuously at the State Department and likely available at the White House and Pentagon as well. That information, along with FLASH/CRITIC messages from NSA, provided early details of what was going on inside the diplomatic compound--and what terrorists involved in the attack were saying. And when the Predator arrived, there was a continuous video stream as well--also available to decision-makers in Washington, including the Commander-in-Chief.

Simply stated, Mr. Obama and his national security team had a pretty good idea of what was going on at the consulate in Benghazi, and the arrival of each reconnaissance asset provided more details. So, given the relatively high degree of granularity, what were our military options, and why was no action taken?"
</According to Fox News military analyst (Ret) Colonel David Hunt>


A rather unsurprising expert opinion based on assumptions of assuming assumptions, and so on, the question becomes what were our military options, and since he hasn't a clue, one wonders who does? I can tell you this much the only effective response would have been troop based, and that looks like that dog wasn't huntable. Any other response would have been ineffective or to deadly....

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 12:51:56 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

An F16 at night verses ground targets hugged up tight against friendlies is worse than useless, can you imagine how much bitching these guys would be doing if the F16s had accidentaly killed friendlies?

Now AC130s live for the dark, unlike when Bush used them in daytume till too many got shot down. So, WERE there any Spectres in Italy? My understanding is most are based here.



No info is being released. We have a squadron of them in Sigonella. However, there were also 2 spectres detailed to libya in March. No return date or other mission is listed for them.


They were not based in Libya. Those 2 were just flying out of sigonella. The issue with the spectres is actually a real question. What is unknown is how long it takes to get a cold plane ready to fly. loading all that ammo probably takes a while.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 1:01:22 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The fact is the security contractors from Tripoli flew out and did assist in the defense of the CIA compound, that's how one them got killed.

BTW those 4 SpecOps guys who didn't fly out there that you claim were operating a MG when they were killed, you figured that fantasy out yet?



I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Woods and Daughterty were both killed after refusing orders to stand down. One up top manning a machine gun when a mortar - the second or third shot - dropped on him. Both of them were ex-special forces.

I have never said anything other than that. I have said that both gentlemen had access to weapsons that weren't sidearms. I think a machine gun pretty much isn't a sidearm.


The accuracy of the mortar fire means that the mortars were preranged and preplanned - aka - it WASN'T a "spontaneous mob". With mortars. And Roadblocks.

wrong. You claimed
quote:

The claim that the 4 guys had nothing but sidearms is again, bs. They were manning a machine gun when they were killed

The 4 SpecOps guys that were not allowed to fly to Benghazi on the flight that brought our people out had nothing but sidearms. They did not get killed operating a MG.

The real group that flew to Benghazi consisted of at least 7 personnel only 1 of whom was killed.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 1:13:43 PM   
NotTellingUAgain


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more will come out, it always does...

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 7:08:12 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A close second, worthy of honorable mention, was the F-16's lack of anti-personnel capabilities except for 250lb bombs:

What kind of antipersonnel ordinance do you think the F-16 could drop? There are no rocket pods or the like for the F-16. Any anti personnel ordinance it drops would be essentially a bomb... And if you really think they'd fly a F-16 all that way to drop a pair of 250lb bombs (since the other hardpoints would have to be occupied with droptanks to get there even with refueling) you're really off the deep end.


I'm still waiting for you to name the anti personnel ordinance that an F-16 could carry that is not what most people would call a bomb. You can back up your assertion can't you?

Slippery wordings like "essentially" and "what most people would call" do not escape the fact that your example of "250lb bombs" makes clear that you are talking about conventional bombs. Anti-personnel cluster munitions are another matter entirely, despite being loosely called "bombs". Consider the following aerial map of the Benghazi compoud:



Pay special attention to the scale in the lower left corner. The open areas of the compound into which the terrorists had swarmed are hundreds of feet in width and length, and surrounded by walls (indicated by the grey lines in the image) that would protect anyone outside the compound from shrapnel. Note, too, that there is only minimal civilian infrastructure (housing, etc.) in the immediate environs of the compound.

A CBU-87 Combined Effects Munition has the following properties:

When dropped from an aircraft, the bomb starts spinning. There are 6 speeds that can adjust the bomb's rate of spin. After it drops to a certain altitude, the canister breaks open and the submunitions are released... the CBU-87 can be adjusted so it can cover a smaller or wider area. Depending on the rate of spin and the altitude at which the canister opens, it can cover an area between 20x20 meters (low release altitude and a slow rate of spin) to 120x240 meters (high release altitude and a high rate of spin). ~Source

F-16s could easily have obliterated an attacking force swarming the compound with minimal risk to civilians outside its walls.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/30/2013 7:09:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 7:16:32 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A close second, worthy of honorable mention, was the F-16's lack of anti-personnel capabilities except for 250lb bombs:

What kind of antipersonnel ordinance do you think the F-16 could drop? There are no rocket pods or the like for the F-16. Any anti personnel ordinance it drops would be essentially a bomb... And if you really think they'd fly a F-16 all that way to drop a pair of 250lb bombs (since the other hardpoints would have to be occupied with droptanks to get there even with refueling) you're really off the deep end.


I'm still waiting for you to name the anti personnel ordinance that an F-16 could carry that is not what most people would call a bomb. You can back up your assertion can't you?

Slippery wordings like "essentially" and "what most people would call" do not escape the fact that your example of "250lb bombs" makes clear that you are talking about conventional bombs. Anti-personnel cluster munitions are another matter entirely, despite being loosely called "bombs". Consider the following aerial map of the Benghazi compoud:



Pay special attention to the scale in the lower left corner. The open areas of the compound into which the terrorists had swarmed are hundreds of feet in width and length, and surrounded by walls (indicated by the grey lines in the image) that would protect anyone outside the compound from shrapnel. Note, too, that there is only minimal civilian infrastructure (housing, etc.) in the immediate environs of the compound.

A CBU-87 Combined Effects Munition has the following properties:

When dropped from an aircraft, the bomb starts spinning. There are 6 speeds that can adjust the bomb's rate of spin. After it drops to a certain altitude, the canister breaks open and the submunitions are released... the CBU-87 can be adjusted so it can cover a smaller or wider area. Depending on the rate of spin and the altitude at which the canister opens, it can cover an area between 20x20 meters (low release altitude and a slow rate of spin) to 120x240 meters (high release altitude and a high rate of spin). ~Source

F-16s could easily have obliterated an attacking force swarming the compound with minimal risk to civilians outside its walls.

K.


It is impossible for any plane to have gotten to Benghazi before the consulate was evacuated. The attack began at about 9:40PM local time. The CIA relief force left their compound at 10:05PM. Even if an AC-130 had been sitting on the runway at Sigonella fully loaded and fueled with a crew onboard it would have still taken more than 2 hours to get on scene. With no ready aircraft it would take more like 5 to 6 hours.

A CBU-67 is a cluster bomb. CBU means cluster bomb unit. So no that is not an antipersonnel weapon that is not a bomb.

Any more fantasies?

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 7:22:32 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Any more fantasies?

Yes, if you're interested, but I warn you it will hurt.

K.

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RE: Benghazi - 7/30/2013 8:01:26 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


Do any of you cooks and latrine cleaners have any experience in military arts after basic?




Right. We should be getting our guidance on military matters from lifer E-6's, who spent their last 10 years supervising urination formations...

There is a nifty trick they practice out at China Lake sometimes, where supersonic fighters come over at about 500-650 feet above the ground, and break every goddamn window for miles with the sonic boom. Makes the fucking savages shit their panties, without dropping a thing off the airplane.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda, didn't, but hey, let's make sure we keep that movie guy locked up.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to mnottertail)
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