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Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 7:44:00 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

I just recently joined the message boards, and I am still reading and trying to catch up, so I apologize if this has been asked before.

I was curious, if anyone has developed a comprehensive training plan/outline when training their sub/slave? Or do most Dom/Dommes just plan a particular scene? Or is it more just kinky sex and spur of the moment?

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

Post #: 1

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 7:58:30 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

My training is informal. I figure out what I want and what she needs, and ask her to do it. If I were to do a comprehensive plan, it would be unique to us.

Training is part of a relationship. A scene is a single play session. You cannot equate a scene plan ("I'll spank you with leather, my hand, and plastic but no wood. Is breast play off limits? Your safeword is Red") with training ("Here are your strengths, and here are some things I want you to work on. Here's an approximate timetable").

Kinky sex is a kind of play session.

Most of our play is spur of the moment. I play with several women who I have topped before, so we both know the other's style.

Here's some pre-scening negotiations I did on another site.

DarkSteven 57M
Greenwood Village, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

I just reread your profile. It said "no thud ever". Does that mean no flogging?

A very nice lady from Colorado
Colorado Springs, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Flogging is good as long as it isn't a big heavy elk flogger or something. I really like flogging actually. For some reason I haven't pinned down, thud is a trigger for me. At best, it's unplleasant and takes me away from being able to enjoy the sensations- at worst, I go to a very icky space and just shut down.

DarkSteven 57M
Greenwood Village, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Hmmm. Not sure what "thud" is, then. I tend to use leather and plastic implements, and shy away from wood because it can cause leatherbutt.

Please give me an example of a thuddy implement to avoid - just heavy floggers?

A very nice lady from Colorado
Colorado Springs, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Some folks like to use larger diameter plastic tubing which can be thuddy. Heavy paddles... fists... I list fists because that's what was used last time I had a really bad scene. He didn't use them with much force, and only on my butt, but it was enough to shut me down and he didn't notice right away. There was no thought in my head about a safe word, I just kind of mentally left the building. Most spanking things are fine.

DarkSteven 57M
Greenwood Village, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Okay. I'll check in with you during any play.

Also - you've got a nice pair of breasts. Is breast play during spanking okay with you? I assume that stroking the neck and back, and the backs of legs is all right?

A very nice lady from Colorado
Colorado Springs, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Cool

My breasts are not sensitive in an erotic way, and I hate clamps and nipple pinching- they are quite tender and stay sore for a long time afterwards, but fondling them and playing with them is fine. Yes, stroking is good.

DarkSteven 57M
Greenwood Village, Colorado
written about 1 month ago:

Yay!

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 2

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 8:16:22 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Dark Steven,

Thank for the informative and timely response. Being fairly new to all of this, I have some ideas, but I am taking the time to become knowledgeable enough to determine how this all fits in to our current arrangement. I respect not only the potential beauty of this lifestyle, but also the potential damage that can be done, if not approached in a sane and safe manner. So I appreciate the input from those more experienced than I.

The purpose of my inquiry was this...

I completed 13 weeks of basic training when I entered the military. From my perspective it was 13 weeks of absolute anarchy, chaos, and confusion. It wasn't until sometime later, that I reflected on the experience and realized that it was entirely scientific in design. Everything we did had a reason behind it. There was a comprehensive training plan in place, and the Drill Instructors accomplished exactly what they set out to do. As I begin exploring this lifestyle and thinking about the totality of the Dom/sub relationship, it made me think that maybe having a customized comprehensive plan for that sub wouldn't be such a bad thing. Putting some thought and structure into what we are trying to accomplish, and the best methods for getting there would be a worthwhile endevour, IMHO.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 3

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 8:37:52 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

No, I have no military style training plan for Carol nor would I for any other partner of mine. I'm not trying to make little interchangeable cogs like the military is. My problem is vastly different. I'm trying to mold and shape Carol to be the best she can be for her first, us second, me third. This gets back to DarkSteven's response.... it'd be unique.

Getting Carol to obey is easy. She's submissive as a general personality trait. Problem solved. Once I have obedience then the rest of the training problem is also solved. I say, she does.

I would never try to enslave someone who was not generally submissive. Why would I want to turn someone into something they were not? I'd rather look at what they ARE and figure out how to enhance that.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 4

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 8:45:41 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

I was curious, if anyone has developed a comprehensive training plan/outline when training their sub/slave? Or do most Dom/Dommes just plan a particular scene? Or is it more just kinky sex and spur of the moment?

Personally I don't think someone needs to be "trained" to engage in kinky sex. I think it's one of the most ridiculous things perpetuated by the guys that prey on newbies and purveyors of porn.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 5

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 8:47:39 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Jeff,

Maybe I didn't articulate my analogy well. I was not suggesting a military style of training, I was merely pointing out that they had developed a plan taking into consideration what they were starting with, where they wanted to end up, and the best route to accomplish this. It was definitely scientifically designed. I was curious to see if that much thought went into to training a sub/slave, or if things just happened one scene at a time, or not at all.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 6

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 8:52:53 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Oside,

I am not sure that I follow you. Is kinky sex what this is all about to most people in this lifestyle? I am not being smug, I am fairly new to this so I am asking in an attempt to determine how this fits in to our beliefs.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 7

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:02:43 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Oside,

I am not sure that I follow you. Is kinky sex what this is all about to most people in this lifestyle? I am not being smug, I am fairly new to this so I am asking in an attempt to determine how this fits in to our beliefs.

Most of what you posted was centered around having a scene and kinky sex. And, a group of particular people use that as an euphemism for "tie you up, beat you and fuck you".

Here's the reality: When you're the bottom, training for BDSM activities is a fallacy. It's a wanker term.

For the record: BDSM is Bondage/Discipline/Sado-Masochism. You can engage in BDSM and never engage in D/s. D/s is Dominance and submission. You can engage in D/s and never engage in BDSM. Dominance and submission is about what happens outside of the bedroom.

Within D/s, unless you're into the Leather society, any training you receive will not carry over from relationship to relationship.

What is desired from each relationship is individual and "training" as a formal term is just for ego stroking....unless you're becoming a chef or a butler.

The reality is that when he wants something done a specific way, he tells me. I do my best to retain that knowledge. He reinforces his desires, until what he wants happens consistently. There is no training, on a formal basis.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 8/6/2013 9:03:57 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 8

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:04:41 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
Maybe I didn't articulate my analogy well. I was not suggesting a military style of training, I was merely pointing out that they had developed a plan taking into consideration what they were starting with, where they wanted to end up, and the best route to accomplish this. It was definitely scientifically designed.

*nods* OK. Can I get a mulligan then? :)

No, I have no such plan. What I have is a very dominant and very manipulative personality that has strong social skills. Couple that with a very submissive personality on Carol's part. How much plan do I need? If I want something, I just tell her that. If the thing I want is likely to be a problem for her that's where the manipulation comes in. I'll just rewire her so that it's not a problem. Actually, it's more accurate to say she rewires herself. I pretty much tell her what I want her new mindset to be and then she makes that happen (sometimes over months if the change is truly core... I'm not talking magic mind control here). Carol WANTS to please me. She WANTS to obey. She WANTS to be perfect for me badly.

The real question is, "Why does she want those things so badly?" The simple answer is, "Because I'm that kind of guy." Women in general have a habit of responding to me in that way (men also but somewhat less so). That's why the whole "Be a stand up sort of guy" thing is so critical for me. It gets me out of all the tricks and plans and whatnot.

Of course the other half of this equation is Carol. It's not enough to want all those things. She has to be able to deliver on them. And sometimes they are DOOZIES. This is where Carol's strength and discipline come into play. Probably one of the worst pejoratives in her entire vocabulary is "shirker" and out of all the places she wouldn't want to shirk in the whole world it'd be in her marriage. That, again, makes things easy. That means if the rewiring attempt fails I don't even have to question her commitment to the effort. I can get right onto the "find the problem area and fix it" part.

In other words, I have nothing to train. All I have is her personality, my personality, and the goal of having a fairy-tale marriage.

Dragging this down to some sort of BDSM sex thing... Let's suppose I wanted her to let me cum in her mouth. She has a strongly negative reaction to that (texture). I'd just tell her, "Learn to like the taste and feeling of having my cum in your mouth." She'd take it from there. Ditto with "become a masochist" or "become poly" or anything else you can name.

I was curious to see if that much thought went into to training a sub/slave, or if things just happened one scene at a time, or not at all.
Warning... Danger Wil Robinson! :)

My thoughts may not be very pertinent to your problem. I don't think in terms of subs/slaves and scenes. I just dominate people (or not if I fail LOL). I mean that both in and out of my relationship. I don't use "dominant" and "submissive" in the relationship sense. I use them in the social sense as descriptors of someone's native or "default" personality. Carol and I don't do "scenes". We're just two normal married folks where one partner has all the authority -- not by agreement but by personality type. If I wanted to have some sort of elaborate sex with her I wouldn't think of it as a scene. I'd think of it as "using my property".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 9

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:15:54 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Oside,

Thank you for further clarifying. And I appreciate your responses, even though I have a different opinion on the matter. I do agree that it would not carry over from relationship to relationship, however due to the fact the the sub in question is my wife, I am not overly concerned with continuity of training. LOL!

And again, maybe I am just not articulating myself well. I was not suggesting a calendar posted on the refrigerator that states, 0800hrs on Monday we will be conducting flogging training. Show up at the sawhorse in your shackles, and be ready to train!

I was kind of thinking that after having a good conversation about what we want out of this, that I should develop a game plan of how to get us there. Not for her so much, as for myself to have an organized approach to our development together.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 10

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:25:06 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Jeff,

Mulligan granted!

And excellent reply, and thank you for taking the time to elaborate. That was exactly what I was looking for. My wife and I have a similar arrangement based on our beliefs. I am the Dominant because that's who I am. She is submissive because that's who she is. We have lived that way for 5 years because it works for us. We were brought up kind of old-fashioned like that.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 11

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:29:46 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

The reality is that when he wants something done a specific way, he tells me. I do my best to retain that knowledge. He reinforces his desires, until what he wants happens consistently. There is no training, on a formal basis.

That's how it is here, too.

We're in a relationship. He runs it, I follow it. He likes using the word "training" because he knows it bugs me lol.

I saw the OP's follow up to this and not sure how to respond to that. We didn't have an organized approach. He is dominant in nature, and I submit to him, naturally. Sure we've had a few hiccups along the way, be we talk through it. We just are who we are. Sorry that's not very helpful to what you're looking for...

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:32:49 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

NuevaVida,

I wasn't looking for anything in particular other than feedback from individuals who have been in this community long enough to share their experience. So yes, your post was helpful. :)

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 13

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:33:59 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Awesome.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 14

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:34:52 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Oside, let me see if I can explain it using an engineering mindset.

WarMachine, the military takes vast numbers of untrained people and, in a short amount of time, remakes them through intensive, full time training for 13 weeks. They necessarily have to use a mass production paradigm, one size fits all.

The lifestyle is one on one. No one size fits all. Plus, it's a helluva lot easier to leave a lifestyle relationship than the military.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 15

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:40:24 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
I was kind of thinking that after having a good conversation about what we want out of this, that I should develop a game plan of how to get us there. Not for her so much, as for myself to have an organized approach to our development together.

*nods* Carol and I did a lot of that... sort of. We ran into this long into our marriage so there were a lot of things already established like "solid communication lines". So maybe this helps more:

My goal was vaguely defined as "owning a slave in the actual sense". What I mean by that is in terms of how both she and I viewed ourselves and each other in a literal sense. I wanted her to think of herself as my property, not my wife. I wanted to think of myself as her owner, not her husband. I wanted both of our self images to change accordingly. That would, of course, be the strongest of all bindings... much stronger than legal slavery.

So we established the general goal and then we started out VERY, VERY carefully. There was quite a period of time when the most problematic command I gave was what I wanted for dinner. We took baby steps. I had the best marriage I'd ever imagined or heard of to lose and nothing to gain by going fast. So we started with "safe" commands. We branched out from there a bit at a time. At some point maybe 8 months in it became pointless to talk about "is it time to expand the domain of my authority again" and I just assumed all the rest.

Then it all fell apart. I continued to push Carol to change her self image. Some of the things I wanted were hurting her because she had not changed. EG: She had rights as a wife that she had not relinquished in her heart. When I determined that my desired dynamic was hurting her I stopped the dynamic. That was a funny episode. I tried to release her and she refused to be released. Try this on for size:

Me: Honey, come on. This dynamic isn't working for you and I LOVE you. Just stop with whole trying to obey me thing.
Her: So I don't have to obey you any more?
Me: Exactly <big grin>
Her: So then I don't have to obey you telling me not to obey?
Me: <oh fuck, screwed by superior logic>

I make light of it now but there were a LOT of tears during those three weeks. I bring up that episode to point out that I was making some really big changes and there have been some really big hurdles. No plan could've really dealt with them. It was more "improvise, adapt, overcome" with a TON of "we love each other" thrown in. We're going through the same thing right now. I'm trying to release her again. I think I'll fail again. (release, for us, means ending the dynamic. Divorce is NOT a happening thing LOL).

My plan was "Go slow. Do the job right the first time. If you screw it up be prepared to rip out rows and rows of bricks in the foundation to get at the bad one then build back up again. DON'T LOSE YOUR WIFE IN THIS." Another thing to point out is that my goal changed over time... rather dramatically in some ways. So that also had to be adapted to. Going slow. Working as team.

The other thing which may be relevant is that I did that good leadership thing and I established a joint vision that she bought into (your comment about "what do we both want out of this") Because she had bought into the goal I didn't need to drag her along or "train" her.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/6/2013 9:41:07 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 16

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:51:56 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Jeff,

Thank you for sharing that. That is my concern. She is submissive, loves me very much, and will do anything because she wants to please me. I want to be careful not to damage our current relationship or her emotionally. That's how this whole plan thing came into my head. A well thought out, organized plan. I do tend to speak in a military sense because it is what I know, but sometimes the words don't compute for others. After your explanation I realize that we were saying the same thing in different languages. You did in fact train her, though informally.

Your responses have really helped me a lot. Thank you.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 17

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:54:40 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Oside,

I am not sure that I follow you. Is kinky sex what this is all about to most people in this lifestyle? I am not being smug, I am fairly new to this so I am asking in an attempt to determine how this fits in to our beliefs.

Most of what you posted was centered around having a scene and kinky sex. And, a group of particular people use that as an euphemism for "tie you up, beat you and fuck you".

Here's the reality: When you're the bottom, training for BDSM activities is a fallacy. It's a wanker term.

For the record: BDSM is Bondage/Discipline/Sado-Masochism. You can engage in BDSM and never engage in D/s. D/s is Dominance and submission. You can engage in D/s and never engage in BDSM. Dominance and submission is about what happens outside of the bedroom.

Within D/s, unless you're into the Leather society, any training you receive will not carry over from relationship to relationship.

What is desired from each relationship is individual and "training" as a formal term is just for ego stroking....unless you're becoming a chef or a butler.

The reality is that when he wants something done a specific way, he tells me. I do my best to retain that knowledge. He reinforces his desires, until what he wants happens consistently. There is no training, on a formal basis.

Two hard and fast rules

1. Both people should be breathing.
2. The sub sets the limits. (even when they declare no limits they are setting the limits)

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 9:59:48 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Bama,

You would think those would be common sense, however, if you felt the need to share them, then they must not be.

We used an anti-personnel mine in the military, and it had the words "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY" embossed on the front, so I see the need to share these things. LOL!

I want to thank everyone for their insight. I genuinely appreciate it.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 19

RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 10:12:31 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
After your explanation I realize that we were saying the same thing in different languages. You did in fact train her, though informally.

Yeah, in a sense. I don't really think of that as "training" in any sense and certainly not in the way BDSM folk use it. But yes, if you squint a little it's training.

As this exchange developed I got a better idea where you were coming from and your problem sounds similar to mine. You got a good thing going on and you don't want to screw it up at all costs. Even more horrifically, you don't want to screw up your wife. That was actually my biggest nightmare. What unintended consequences would results from having a human being re-envision themselves as owned property? That was the one thing I could really plan for or prepare for in any way (unintended consequences are like that). But the "go slow" plan worked for that also.

quote:

Your responses have really helped me a lot. Thank you.

Welcome :) I always like it when I actually manage to get close to the real problem. As we've seen here... text loses a lot of the communication.

Maybe this will help too.

Fear: What damage will be done to Carol in this?
Answer: None

Fear: Will she lose her ability to critically think for herself?
Answer: No, human brains can't do that.

Fear: What if <unnamed bad things> happen?
Answer 1: Then we will lock hands and deal with them as a team.
Answer 2: I've led a lot of people in my life in various contexts and generally it was good for them. Why am I suddenly thinking this will be bad?

Fear: What if absolute power corrupts absolutely?
Answer: It doesn't.

In short... if you are really like us and you got a good thing going on then you're probably worrying too much... and that's a good thing.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 20

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