RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why?

RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why? (Full Version)

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LookieNoNookie -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/19/2013 9:01:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I'm defining a cheater as someone who has agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and who lies to his/her spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend about who they have sex with. I am also including those who go behind the person's back and though they don't tell outright lies, they lie by omission. What I think about cheaters has been well documented by my posts, but I'll restate that to me it means the person is lacking in personal integrity to a high degree. I think this b/c the person is not just lying to their spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend, but to them self. To cheat (to me) means you are very unhappy, but you don't have the guts to own up to it. This is my opinion, what is yours? Couldn't have stated it more clearly or succinctly. A cheater is a cheater....and.....cheaters cheat. Fact.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 5:16:33 AM)
There are some who learn through mistakes. There are some who have great compassion for others whether they are right or wrong. When someone is on the wrong path, they need love the most, when they are hardest to love. Some can not fathom they "did anything wrong" In my opinion, beating someone down to a point of exhaustion, denying affections, not trying to understand your partner, hateful attitudes is every bit as nasty as the person who goes out to cheat. And then there are some, who are very narrow minded, and must be right. They will argue a point with absence of considering the state of another due to their own road blocks. They simply are stubborn and set in their ways and wouldn't admit they could be wrong for anything. If one can not accept responsibility for their own actions, they simple can not find compassion, bottom line. ( FORGIVENESS) I think it is a terrible thing when people try to make others feel they have no hope of change. I think its a terrible thing when people share their experiences, sharing with others what they did wrong and how they overcame, and comments are made, as if they haven't changed at all. A cheater in your eyes, may be a cheater a cheater forever but I find people who are very narrow minded ignorant, and people who take the time to criticize successes or to purposely take peoples hope away, the ones with true lasting problems. Oh Ye of little faith. May your eyes be opened. Amen.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 5:43:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha needles, I just don't see how making judgments on situations where we know nothing of the facts is nothing more than an exercise to feed our own egos and sense of "better than." What is the point? And people are so eager to participate in that. So you say I am judging? I am just asking people to look at their own motivations. I am constantly asking myself to look at my own motivations. I am constantly asking myself at this stage in my life to always question my own motivations when it comes to my actions. I hate to get all zen on people. It's just where I am in my life right now. I apologize for that. But if I do something in my life and the outcome isn't net positive I don't see the point. People are eager to participate in the discussion involving judging the acts of others (gossiping, basically) who don't even exist, where no one can judge (as if they even have the RIGHT) because they don't have the facts. I don't care about the circumstances - people immediately say "well you don't know how damaging cheating can be," -- yes you have a point. But no one is talking about specifics. This is just an opportunity to throw out a blanket term "cheating" so everyone can get on a high horse and proclaim how superior they are, and people are climbing over each other to do so. It says way more about the people than the cheaters. It's convenient that the circumstances are not defined. I have learned a lot about the people of CM considering this is one of the most popular threads on CM, meanwhile posts about real kink are just met with inside jokes. It's no wonder new people don't post. Akasha Be proud of your Zen. [:D]There is only one reason for negative input, and the motivations behind it and you know it. Don't apologize for having clarity.

evesgrden -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 7:35:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I'm defining a cheater as someone who has agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and who lies to his/her spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend about who they have sex with. I am also including those who go behind the person's back and though they don't tell outright lies, they lie by omission. What I think about cheaters has been well documented by my posts, but I'll restate that to me it means the person is lacking in personal integrity to a high degree. I think this b/c the person is not just lying to their spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend, but to them self. To cheat (to me) means you are very unhappy, but you don't have the guts to own up to it. This is my opinion, what is yours? Couldn't have stated it more clearly or succinctly. A cheater is a cheater....and.....cheaters cheat. Fact. I disagree. I think that cheating is not necessarily a chronic condition, i.e., that cheaters will always cheat. There are so many reasons, and with the exception of those who are just horny and playing around, I submit that most of them know full well that they are unhappy. There is a price to pay for cheating. I doubt that cheating is easy. It may be fun/exhilerating etc at first, but geeze the lies, the constant threat of being caught, the self doubt about why they're doing it. I can't see how it's not a stressful situation. So yes, the unhappiness is owned, and perhaps the cheating provides respite from it, but likely not much more than that. It's a sad situation all around, and I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of those who have cheated and subsequently ended their primary relationship just don't have the stomach to ever to do cheat again.

needlesandpins -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 7:52:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 There are some who learn through mistakes. There are some who have great compassion for others whether they are right or wrong. When someone is on the wrong path, they need love the most, when they are hardest to love. Some can not fathom they "did anything wrong" In my opinion, beating someone down to a point of exhaustion, denying affections, not trying to understand your partner, hateful attitudes is every bit as nasty as the person who goes out to cheat. And then there are some, who are very narrow minded, and must be right. They will argue a point with absence of considering the state of another due to their own road blocks. They simply are stubborn and set in their ways and wouldn't admit they could be wrong for anything. If one can not accept responsibility for their own actions, they simple can not find compassion, bottom line. ( FORGIVENESS) I think it is a terrible thing when people try to make others feel they have no hope of change. I think its a terrible thing when people share their experiences, sharing with others what they did wrong and how they overcame, and comments are made, as if they haven't changed at all. A cheater in your eyes, may be a cheater a cheater forever but I find people who are very narrow minded ignorant, and people who take the time to criticize successes or to purposely take peoples hope away, the ones with true lasting problems. Oh Ye of little faith. May your eyes be opened. Amen. there is so much hypocrisy, and passive aggressiveness in that it's unreal. I think it's far more open minded to admit that when you cheated you were just plain wrong. I accepted the responsibility for what I did, but I won't ever forgive myself for it because it was selfish and wrong to take my little bit of happy at the expense of someone else's lot of happy. there are many people in really shitty positions that still don't see cheating as a way to go. some of us who are set against cheating have had shit lives too ya know. if you don't want to have negative things said against you, or what you say when you post your about your life then don't post about it. people don't have to coat you in syrup and call you sweetie just because you would rather they did. we can all have sympathy for the situation you were in, but it doesn't mean we have to agree that that made you a better person than someone else cheating just because they can. needles

ARIES83 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 7:48:35 PM)
I think this kind of thinking is very common, it's similar to discussions I've had before about the ethics of lying... I maintain that Lying is born of weakness (even when it's pure deceit, though in a less direct way...) and weakness should be an inherently undesirable trait most times. (Note: I'm referring to weakness of character, but it's important to understand everything is relative especially when using the term broadly... And broadly I still hold to it, but with caveats.) However the other side will inevitably follow the theme of... The greater good, or lying for a cause/ every situation merits a individual response as to the ethics of lying taking into account the specific circumstances. An it's that blend of reason and logic that lends so much weight to the argument. I still say, Lying is inherently bad. Rather than saying lying is acceptable in certain circumstances, I say certain circumstances can force you to choose whether to sacrifice yourself for your principles, or your principles for yourself. Hiding from consequence, shirking responsibility... Avoiding accountability... Are all times when the weak will turn to lying to postpone making the hard choices... The alternative in many cases is martyrdom and not a very attractive choice if it can be avoided... However their are ways to avoid it that don't require lying... One is to have power enough to ensure that you need not pay for your character... There are two types of strength here... The type willing to suffer for their principles, and the type (of strength) thats not.... The first type only requires stubbornness and a loincloth... The second is a lot more effort, the lazy need not apply.

metamorfosis -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 9:57:39 PM)
Posters seem to fall into clear categories here, offering the cheater either compassion or condemnation. Oddly enough, posters are not being forced to choose between the two. The question of whether a person in a sexless marriage warrants compassion is completely separate from whether that person is wrong for lying to their spouse. And yet, passions fly high, people dig in and start firing at the other side like their life is at stake. In the process, it escapes many people (including me) that both positions are correct. In other words: Regardless of how wrong the person is for lying to their spouse, their living situation may well warrant compassion. and Regardless of how deserving someone is of compassion, it's still just as wrong to lie to their spouse. To me, that's the strangest thing of all, the fact that most people felt compelled to choose between the two.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/20/2013 10:36:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: metamorfosis To me, that's the strangest thing of all, the fact that most people felt compelled to choose between the two. I used to find this strange; I no longer do.

ARIES83 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 5:53:18 AM)
quote: Regardless of how wrong the person is for lying to their spouse, their living situation may well warrant compassion. and Regardless of how deserving someone is of compassion, it's still just as wrong to lie to their spouse. I agree, but I doubt everyone would.

Rule -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 6:08:18 AM)
FR Say that you are a female and that you married someone who was born deaf, blind, mentally retarded and a cripple with scoliosis; all of which are inherited diseases. Are going to be a good faithful wife and give birth to his children, or are you going to use your god-given brains and be circumspectfully adulterous with a Greek Adonis and make your husband proud that he begot such beautiful, perfect children without any of his inherited diseases?

kalikshama -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 6:30:21 AM)
quote: Regardless of how wrong the person is for lying to their spouse, their living situation may well warrant compassion. and Regardless of how deserving someone is of compassion, it's still just as wrong to lie to their spouse. This is where I stand, and hopefully my posting history supports that.

Toysinbabeland -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:02:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Say that you are a female and that you married someone who was born deaf, blind, mentally retarded and a cripple with scoliosis; all of which are inherited diseases. Are going to be a good faithful wife and give birth to his children, or are you going to use your god-given brains and be circumspectfully adulterous with a Greek Adonis and make your husband proud that he begot such beautiful, perfect children without any of his inherited diseases? what would be the reason for the marriage? That would be the root of explaining why you would not betray the trust of the less than perfect partner. Especially after committing. The real question then becomes, what happens when that perfect for your needs partner changes in a way that you wouldn't have agreed to commit to and you are stuck with the results? Can you always leave? I have a cousin whose wife won't let him see his own kids because she left with them three years ago across the country. He sees them twice a year. She left him for another woman. He did nothing wrong, except to tell her he didn't agree to share her. (She had agreed originally to be exclusive) Now he can't kiss his kids goodnight.Her ideal was that she could have another girl but he couldn't, yet the court chose her because she was the maternal parent! Should he have just kept quiet and had no relationship for himself? Or should he have kept quiet and found someone for company while the kids grew up under his roof? If they had no kids, splitting up makes sense. By the logic on the board to tell the truth, He lost his kids to distance because he told the truth. I wish for him that he had just cheated on her. But I'm not him, so I don't know how he feels. I'm just saying that I think that not everyone can decide what's best in every situation. You can coach armchair style all you want until you are the one being affected. It's not for me to judge until it's my situation. Edited for accuracy.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:18:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Say that you are a female and that you married someone who was born deaf, blind, mentally retarded and a cripple with scoliosis; all of which are inherited diseases. Are going to be a good faithful wife and give birth to his children, or are you going to use your god-given brains and be circumspectfully adulterous with a Greek Adonis and make your husband proud that he begot such beautiful, perfect children without any of his inherited diseases? What a very interesting post. Where black and white, fades to grey. A place were a lie is for the betterment? Its one of those things that lead to so many questions. Such as why the marriage anyway? Is it good to lie in certain situations when it may very well be unselfish? Definitely mind broadening. And as Metamorsis said, do we really even have to pick sides? Having the wisdom to know what to pick and when, can be a forever struggle. It has so much to do with motivation of choice, myself.

ARIES83 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:18:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Say that you are a female and that you married someone who was born deaf, blind, mentally retarded and a cripple with scoliosis; all of which are inherited diseases. Are going to be a good faithful wife and give birth to his children, or are you going to use your god-given brains and be circumspectfully adulterous with a Greek Adonis and make your husband proud that he begot such beautiful, perfect children without any of his inherited diseases? Ok, I'll bite. So your saying, if the wife is with this guy with bad DNA, her finding a genetically superior guy to breed with is actually a sort of... What? Act of love? Her thinking being that she is giving the husband (who is unworthy apparently to father children), a son free of his genetically inferior legacy. And the wife will apparently keep the fact that it is another mans child a secret in an attempt to pass the child off as the husbands... Her thinking being that Her husband will be overjoyed at his good fortune that by some miracle he has managed to father a healthy child... Ok, so from your post, it seems you want me to put myself into this woman's shoes and say whether I in that position would breed with the bad DNA husband and risk having a bad DNA baby with him, or go behind his back and breed with a good DNA man... And I have to say, I'd do neither... Sorry Rule, though I do actually know a woman who decided to have an abortion because the man she was with wasn't good enough to raise her child in her opinion. I wont go into detail but it does point out something you haven't talked about in your scenario... What is the life of the child going to be like in your opinion? It's father will never be able to hear it talk, see it walk, teach it sports, read to it... Your quick to want to gift this guy (who you see as being unworthy to reproduce), with a perfect child... But by doing so you would impose a chronically disabled parent on a child who isn't even related to him? What of... The children!

Rule -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:23:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland what would be the reason for the marriage? Only to be in love is a valid reason to get married. quote: ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland what would be the reason for the marriage? That would be the root of explaining why you would not betray the trust of the less than perfect partner. Especially after committing. The trust of the - by definition less than perfect male partner - ought to be that his wife is circumspect when adulterous and that she will only be adulterous with males that are superior to himself. quote: ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland The real question then becomes, what happens when that perfect for your needs partner changes in a way that you wouldn't have agreed to commit to and you are stuck with the results? Can you always leave? For the female: be more adulterous and have all your children by other, more superior men. For the male: Get religious and join a monastery. quote: ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland She left him for another woman. He did nothing wrong, except to tell her he didn't agree to share her. (She had agreed originally to be exclusive) Now he can't kiss his kids goodnight.Her ideal was that she could have another girl but he couldn't, yet the court chose her because she was the maternal parent! Should he have just kept quiet and had no relationship for himself? Or should he have kept quiet and found someone for company while the kids grew up under his roof? If they had no kids, splitting up makes sense. By the logic on the board to tell the truth, He lost his kids to distance because he told the truth. I wish for him that he had just cheated on her. She was at fault for not being circumspect about her adultery. He was at fault for discussing her adultery with her. If she denied him intercourse, he had a legitimate reason to be adulterous himself - but it would have been better for him to join a monastery in that case.

Rule -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:27:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 why the marriage anyway? Is it good to lie in certain situations when it may very well be unselfish? My point is that by definition any male whom a female marries, is inferior to the other male whom she falls in love with and is adulterous with. After all, she would be crazy to be adulterous with a male who is the equal of or inferior to her husband. Thus all married males by definition are inferior males compared to some divine Greek Adonis.

DomMeinCT -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:36:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 There are some who learn through mistakes. There are some who have great compassion for others whether they are right or wrong. When someone is on the wrong path, they need love the most, when they are hardest to love. Some can not fathom they "did anything wrong" In my opinion, beating someone down to a point of exhaustion, denying affections, not trying to understand your partner, hateful attitudes is every bit as nasty as the person who goes out to cheat. And then there are some, who are very narrow minded, and must be right. They will argue a point with absence of considering the state of another due to their own road blocks. They simply are stubborn and set in their ways and wouldn't admit they could be wrong for anything. If one can not accept responsibility for their own actions, they simple can not find compassion, bottom line. ( FORGIVENESS) I think it is a terrible thing when people try to make others feel they have no hope of change. I think its a terrible thing when people share their experiences, sharing with others what they did wrong and how they overcame, and comments are made, as if they haven't changed at all. A cheater in your eyes, may be a cheater a cheater forever but I find people who are very narrow minded ignorant, and people who take the time to criticize successes or to purposely take peoples hope away, the ones with true lasting problems. Oh Ye of little faith. May your eyes be opened. Amen. there is so much hypocrisy, and passive aggressiveness in that it's unreal. I think it's far more open minded to admit that when you cheated you were just plain wrong. I accepted the responsibility for what I did, but I won't ever forgive myself for it because it was selfish and wrong to take my little bit of happy at the expense of someone else's lot of happy. there are many people in really shitty positions that still don't see cheating as a way to go. some of us who are set against cheating have had shit lives too ya know. if you don't want to have negative things said against you, or what you say when you post your about your life then don't post about it. people don't have to coat you in syrup and call you sweetie just because you would rather they did. we can all have sympathy for the situation you were in, but it doesn't mean we have to agree that that made you a better person than someone else cheating just because they can. needles Now that is what deserves an AMEN.

Rule -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:41:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 So your saying, if the wife is with this guy with bad DNA, her finding a genetically superior guy to breed with is actually a sort of... What? Act of love? All intercourse ought to be an act of love. Acts of lust are characteristic of animals. quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 Her thinking being that she is giving the husband (who is unworthy apparently to father children), a son free of his genetically inferior legacy. All people are carriers of inherited diseases - but some carry a lot more of them than others. All husbands are worthy to be fathers - however, some other males are by definition even more worthy. quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 And I have to say, I'd do neither... Well, then it is the monastery for you, as you clearly are not fit to be a husband and father. quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 What is the life of the child going to be like in your opinion? It's father will never be able to hear it talk, see it walk, teach it sports, read to it... You're quick to want to gift this guy (who you see as being unworthy to reproduce), with a perfect child... But by doing so you would impose a chronically disabled parent on a child who isn't even related to him? What of... The children! Those children will be loved if the husband is at all not an animal. Jesus thought all his life that Joseph was not his father - but Joseph loved him and protected him anyway. That demonstrates nobility of soul.

LadyPact -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:50:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Say that you are a female and that you married someone who was born deaf, blind, mentally retarded and a cripple with scoliosis; all of which are inherited diseases. Are going to be a good faithful wife and give birth to his children, or are you going to use your god-given brains and be circumspectfully adulterous with a Greek Adonis and make your husband proud that he begot such beautiful, perfect children without any of his inherited diseases? Your scenario looses something because you're stating the guy was born that way. That means anybody marrying that individual would already be aware of the situation up front and may have accepted the higher risk of birth defect. My God-given brains wouldn't have entered that situation to begin with. Too over the top. If something actually happened to MP to put him in such a state, no, I wouldn't leave him or lie to him out of some sort thinking it's kinder to him to be unfaithful. Even if he lost his faculties for some reason, I've known his opinion on the matter for darn near all of the twelve years that I've known him. One that, if we didn't share the same way of thinking about it, we'd have never been married in the first place.

Rule -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/21/2013 7:54:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Your scenario looses something because you're stating the guy was born that way. That means anybody marrying that individual would already be aware of the situation up front and may have accepted the higher risk of birth defect. My God-given brains wouldn't have entered that situation to begin with. Too over the top. From Wikipedia: quote: Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: argument to absurdity), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance. Thus the 'too over the top' part was deliberate.

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