RE: What do *YOU* think about cheaters? And why?

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NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 8:03:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins if you are so miserable in a relationship that you need to cheat then leave. grow a set and leave first. needles An understandable statement but impractical advice. There was recent discussion about abuse and how the abused can be one so whittled away there is no strength left to leave. That she (or he) comes to believe they just deserve that misery. That there is very little hope. Would you tell that person to grow a set and leave? When I personally was in that place, cheating became a desperate lifeline. If for just an hour I could feel wanted and could experience human touch, even though I was even more hollowed out when I got home, more guilt ridden, more self loathing, it fed me for at least a little bit even though it hurt me more. Cheating is what prompted us into therapy ( he wouldn't go before) and therapy is what finally brought me the strength to "grow a set" as you put it. Otherwise I just felt hopeless and unworthy and yes, suicidal. Growing a set means having self respect. A broken person doesn't find that overnight. One last (maybe last) note: sometimes, as was the case with me, the cheaters partner won't help solve the problem. In my case, he denied any accountability for the state of our marriage and refused therapy until I told him I was leaving. I'm just saying its not always as easy as "Talk to your partner" or "Grow a set and leave". There are sometimes gaping emotional wounds that need healing first. Again, what I did was wrong and in retrospect I would do things very differently. But I understand now what brought us to that place, and I've forgiven us both for it.

petitespot -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 8:56:32 AM)
It's no secret on the boards that I cheated. Certainly not my proudest moment. I didn't really know how unimportant I had become in my marriage until I became the most important person to someone else. Cheating showed me that my marriage was dead. I left my husband for Shorey. My ex knows everything. We have remained friends. He realized that I wasn't kidding when I expressed how unhappy I was. He finally took me seriously. Cheating isn't a one person job. The one being cheated on usually plays a big role leading up to it. My ex wasn't innocent. He made choices too which led me down the path. I'm not happy that I'm defined by such a negative thing. I do know that it is something I will never do again.

pahunkboy -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 9:06:05 AM)
FR: No one is going to clap and say yay- when they been cheated on. I learned to stay out of it- when people/couples have issues. We are all human- it happens. People have various expectations, and people evolve.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 9:20:52 AM)
Previous post of mine: "be one" should be "become". It's an autocorrect thing.

Shininglight23 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 9:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I'm defining a cheater as someone who has agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and who lies to his/her spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend about who they have sex with. I am also including those who go behind the person's back and though they don't tell outright lies, they lie by omission. What I think about cheaters has been well documented by my posts, but I'll restate that to me it means the person is lacking in personal integrity to a high degree. I think this b/c the person is not just lying to their spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend, but to them self. To cheat (to me) means you are very unhappy, but you don't have the guts to own up to it. This is my opinion, what is yours? This is a FR--I haven't read the whole thread, and I don't know where it's evolved too, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. I have witnessed first hand what cheating does to people, and it effected a 20 year friendship of mine. Last year I was sitting in a bar waiting for a co-worker to get there. A couple after work cocktails was what I was thinking, but I experienced something totally different. It was a local bar, and I had been there a couple times so I knew the bartender. He mentioned the lady at the end of the bar, and to "get a look at her". (At the time he didn't realize the impact that would have.) She was going on and on about how her boyfriend was wonderful and how he helps her with bills, and how 10 years together has been the best of her life. Just as I was getting ready to leave-- her boyfriend came in. He downed the beer she had sitting next to her, and proceeded to stick his tongue down her throat for a good 3 minutes straight. When he looked up is when he saw me. It was my best friends father--the woman was not my best friends mother. He went white and rightly so. I live in a different town than my best friends family and he didn't know that at the time, but I wasn't even really on his radar. He wasn't in his backyard... so why would he think he would be caught? I got up from my seat and as I walked past him-- I said, "Hi Dan" and left. Skip to an hour later when my best friend is getting off work. I drove the 45 minutes to her house and sat her down because I didn't think I could live with myself if I kept it in. I felt like because our friendship was so strong and I loved her--She needed to know, and from there--she could decide what to do. She obviously didn't take it well, and she immediately wanted to tell her Mom. That changed once we were on our way. (I was thanking God at the time because I didn't think I could look her Mom in the eye and break her heart.) We went back to the bar and spoke with the owner of the bar because she knew the area where this woman lived. (Apparently she was a regular.) We drove around that area of town until we spotted her fathers truck, and then she called him. He lied to her on the phone and said that he was in another town "working." When she said--I'm on X street standing behind your truck and I want to talk to you right now--he finally came out. (After 15 minutes--I'm sure he had to put his pants back on.) When he came outside--he continued to lie and said he was with X person (who was a man) and when my friend demanded to meet him.. he kept trying to lie, but thankfully (at the time) she wasn't buying it. He said that he wanted to talk to her alone which I wasn't really comfortable with because he can be violent when drunk. However, they did talk, and he convinced her that nothing happened and that woman I saw was just his friend. He also convinced her NOT to tell her Mom. She blamed ME for almost ruining her family. Our relationship has never been the same. I lost a friend of 20 years because of telling the truth--because I did what her cowardly father couldn't even do when confronted by a person who witnessed his cheating first hand. Cheating effects more people than anyone intends it to. I am sure of that. If what that woman was saying was truth--she took money from a family who needed it--one who struggled, and had to scrimp to put healthy food on the table. I will never look at my best friends father the same. Instead of being the man who woke me up for church every Sunday, and built a fort for us in the woods, or the man who would go without for his family--he's a lying cheater who stole food from the mouths of his children. He's a man who placed sex over spending time with his children--because he was always "working." Just as an extra aside--to highlight how much of a liar he is... he was "sober" for 9 months when I saw him down that beer in the bar. Allie

njlauren -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 11:12:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shininglight23 quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I'm defining a cheater as someone who has agreed to be in a monogamous relationship and who lies to his/her spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend about who they have sex with. I am also including those who go behind the person's back and though they don't tell outright lies, they lie by omission. What I think about cheaters has been well documented by my posts, but I'll restate that to me it means the person is lacking in personal integrity to a high degree. I think this b/c the person is not just lying to their spouse or partner or girl/boyfriend, but to them self. To cheat (to me) means you are very unhappy, but you don't have the guts to own up to it. This is my opinion, what is yours? This is a FR--I haven't read the whole thread, and I don't know where it's evolved too, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. I have witnessed first hand what cheating does to people, and it effected a 20 year friendship of mine. Last year I was sitting in a bar waiting for a co-worker to get there. A couple after work cocktails was what I was thinking, but I experienced something totally different. It was a local bar, and I had been there a couple times so I knew the bartender. He mentioned the lady at the end of the bar, and to "get a look at her". (At the time he didn't realize the impact that would have.) She was going on and on about how her boyfriend was wonderful and how he helps her with bills, and how 10 years together has been the best of her life. Just as I was getting ready to leave-- her boyfriend came in. He downed the beer she had sitting next to her, and proceeded to stick his tongue down her throat for a good 3 minutes straight. When he looked up is when he saw me. It was my best friends father--the woman was not my best friends mother. He went white and rightly so. I live in a different town than my best friends family and he didn't know that at the time, but I wasn't even really on his radar. He wasn't in his backyard... so why would he think he would be caught? I got up from my seat and as I walked past him-- I said, "Hi Dan" and left. Skip to an hour later when my best friend is getting off work. I drove the 45 minutes to her house and sat her down because I didn't think I could live with myself if I kept it in. I felt like because our friendship was so strong and I loved her--She needed to know, and from there--she could decide what to do. She obviously didn't take it well, and she immediately wanted to tell her Mom. That changed once we were on our way. (I was thanking God at the time because I didn't think I could look her Mom in the eye and break her heart.) We went back to the bar and spoke with the owner of the bar because she knew the area where this woman lived. (Apparently she was a regular.) We drove around that area of town until we spotted her fathers truck, and then she called him. He lied to her on the phone and said that he was in another town "working." When she said--I'm on X street standing behind your truck and I want to talk to you right now--he finally came out. (After 15 minutes--I'm sure he had to put his pants back on.) When he came outside--he continued to lie and said he was with X person (who was a man) and when my friend demanded to meet him.. he kept trying to lie, but thankfully (at the time) she wasn't buying it. He said that he wanted to talk to her alone which I wasn't really comfortable with because he can be violent when drunk. However, they did talk, and he convinced her that nothing happened and that woman I saw was just his friend. He also convinced her NOT to tell her Mom. She blamed ME for almost ruining her family. Our relationship has never been the same. I lost a friend of 20 years because of telling the truth--because I did what her cowardly father couldn't even do when confronted by a person who witnessed his cheating first hand. Cheating effects more people than anyone intends it to. I am sure of that. If what that woman was saying was truth--she took money from a family who needed it--one who struggled, and had to scrimp to put healthy food on the table. I will never look at my best friends father the same. Instead of being the man who woke me up for church every Sunday, and built a fort for us in the woods, or the man who would go without for his family--he's a lying cheater who stole food from the mouths of his children. He's a man who placed sex over spending time with his children--because he was always "working." Just as an extra aside--to highlight how much of a liar he is... he was "sober" for 9 months when I saw him down that beer in the bar. Allie That is a powerful story, and thanks for sharing it, and I have heard/seen similar stories. I think the spectrum of stories people have been telling on here give a good idea of why I don't think it is black and white, and why it depends heavily on context. The story Allie told to me was despicable, the man was keeping a woman on the side and was taking resources away from his family, and to me that is someone who fits the mold of the arrogant cheat, who wants his cake and eat it too, and that troubles me. The person who cheats because they have a miserable marriage but stays to try and keep it from affecting the kids (assuming it isn't just an excuse for what he/she is doing), at least has some reasons, the person who cheats because their spouse is emotionally or sexually distant at least has some reasons there, but something like Allie's story seems like someone doing it because it is a kick, he has the hot gal on the side, totally ignoring in many ways what it is doing to his own family. Allie's story also has some irony to it, the man wasn't a total monster, he was someone who had many good attributes to him, yet he couldn't see that while he would sacrifice for his kids and do wonderful things, he couldn't see what he was doing was hurting them, I am sure in his head, as many people who cheat do, he said "well, look at all I do for them"...and I can understand that, we all are human beings rationalize things, it is natural to us. There are times when I have been tempted by things, may have done things I shouldn't have, it is very easy to look at the things I have sacrificed in my life, including being myself, to make a good life for my kid and my wife, it is easy to look at all the stress I have, the financial burdens, you name it, and say 'look at all I have done, I am not a bad person, so if I decide some weekend to get al dolled up and pick up some guy at a trans club and get fucked, what's the harm', but of course the reality is it would be hurtful, but I could easily rationalize it..... The thing also, as with the man Allie talked about, is that it isn't always black and white, the cheater is a miserable person only caring about themselves, often they are people others look up to because they otherwise are good people. Like I mentioned in my original posts, there are cheaters who basically are like the stories of cheating wives and husbands you read online,where they use their spouse as a base of operations to come back to, and screw others at will, but many are people caught up in things they otherwise wouldn't do, so there is some room at least for understanding. In the end as good as he might have been otherwise, the man in Allie's story fails miserably, because his was a long term affair that he couldn't bother to see what hurting what he claimed to love, he was in the end overtly a selfish person, as are the people i have talked about. There was a woman at the company I used to work for who rose to the top, and while I absolutely detest the image that if a woman gets ahead because of what she looks like/does, in her case, it was true-and the sad part was she had a husband who was one of the sweetest, nicest guys I ever met, he was a handsome, decent man, and she basically used him as cover for her shit. He so loved her he couldn't fathom what she was doing to him, they had young kids, and he basically ended up mother and father to them, it was sad, and in her case if she got run over by a bus or mugged and killed, I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep over it. People did try to tell him, but he wouldn't listen, I did hear the poor guy found out several years later, story I heard he literally walked in on her in their house tied up and getting fucked my some client, and her only words were "I think you owe us privacy" or some such.....only good part of the story was he got decent therapy and found a really sweet woman, and apparently a lot of people signed affadavits about her behavior with executives and such, so he ended up taking her and the firm to the cleaners, it was so bad... I get a lot of heat on boards where people talk about how to cheat, there was some guy/gal from their past, etc, because I strongly tell them to think of the consequences, and that if it is ongoing they likely will get caught because it is going to change how their relationship works.

cloudboy -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 8:39:58 PM)
I have missed you posting; you've never engaged in group think and usually bring something raw and real to the table. I have a libertarian view of relationships, and as such no one is ever cheating on me. They are just doing what they need to do. The question really is, do my partners want to be with me? Lucky for my partners, it's not all about me and no one else, ever. That's not how I roll. What's funny is having that expectation (it's all about me and no one else, ever) and then being "shocked," "hurt," and "betrayed" that your partner has other interests.

littlewonder -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/17/2013 8:49:00 PM)
My opinion is that I think they are despicable,people with no morals whatsoever. I don't care what excuse you use, it's still cheating. Have a partner who won't give you sex? Either get divorced or talk to the partner and find some way to fix it or be happy anyway. No sex is not the end of the world. Have a partner who is ill? Same thing....either get divorced if you can't stand it or talk to the partner. If they have an illness where they can't give consent of any kind then again, get divorced or find other ways to satisfy your sex life without having to cheat. Yes, it can be done. I don't care what your excuse is. There is NO reasonable excuse. You're still a liar, a cheat and other words that I won't repeat here. Now if this means some person thinks I'm self righteous, you betchya and I have no problems with living up to that.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 3:56:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I have missed you posting; you've never engaged in group think and usually bring something raw and real to the table. I have a libertarian view of relationships, and as such no one is ever cheating on me. They are just doing what they need to do. The question really is, do my partners want to be with me? Lucky for my partners, it's not all about me and no one else, ever. That's not how I roll. What's funny is having that expectation (it's all about me and no one else, ever) and then being "shocked," "hurt," and "betrayed" that your partner has other interests. I feel sorry for you if you don't expect honesty in your relationships. How can you possibly submit to someone who you trust so little? Many of us have stated repeatedly that for us, our hatred of cheating is not about the sex, it's about the lying. Are you seriously telling this board that you don't care if someone you have a serious attachment with lies to you? If so, than we may have to disagree about the term 'serious attachment.'

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 5:29:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins if you are so miserable in a relationship that you need to cheat then leave. grow a set and leave first. needles An understandable statement but impractical advice. There was recent discussion about abuse and how the abused can be one so whittled away there is no strength left to leave. That she (or he) comes to believe they just deserve that misery. That there is very little hope. Would you tell that person to grow a set and leave? When I personally was in that place, cheating became a desperate lifeline. If for just an hour I could feel wanted and could experience human touch, even though I was even more hollowed out when I got home, more guilt ridden, more self loathing, it fed me for at least a little bit even though it hurt me more. Cheating is what prompted us into therapy ( he wouldn't go before) and therapy is what finally brought me the strength to "grow a set" as you put it. Otherwise I just felt hopeless and unworthy and yes, suicidal. Growing a set means having self respect. A broken person doesn't find that overnight. One last (maybe last) note: sometimes, as was the case with me, the cheaters partner won't help solve the problem. In my case, he denied any accountability for the state of our marriage and refused therapy until I told him I was leaving. I'm just saying its not always as easy as "Talk to your partner" or "Grow a set and leave". There are sometimes gaping emotional wounds that need healing first. Again, what I did was wrong and in retrospect I would do things very differently. But I understand now what brought us to that place, and I've forgiven us both for it. Congrats to your relationship growth and survival! I relate closely to this place you were, I also lived there. It is good to see ones mistakes reflected back and see another strong couple ride the storm out and learn a great deal. Although, I never want to revisit that place, I can say I am much stronger after making it out of the suffering, mine and others.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 6:18:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins if you are so miserable in a relationship that you need to cheat then leave. grow a set and leave first. needles An understandable statement but impractical advice. There was recent discussion about abuse and how the abused can be one so whittled away there is no strength left to leave. That she (or he) comes to believe they just deserve that misery. That there is very little hope. Would you tell that person to grow a set and leave? When I personally was in that place, cheating became a desperate lifeline. If for just an hour I could feel wanted and could experience human touch, even though I was even more hollowed out when I got home, more guilt ridden, more self loathing, it fed me for at least a little bit even though it hurt me more. Cheating is what prompted us into therapy ( he wouldn't go before) and therapy is what finally brought me the strength to "grow a set" as you put it. Otherwise I just felt hopeless and unworthy and yes, suicidal. Growing a set means having self respect. A broken person doesn't find that overnight. One last (maybe last) note: sometimes, as was the case with me, the cheaters partner won't help solve the problem. In my case, he denied any accountability for the state of our marriage and refused therapy until I told him I was leaving. I'm just saying its not always as easy as "Talk to your partner" or "Grow a set and leave". There are sometimes gaping emotional wounds that need healing first. Again, what I did was wrong and in retrospect I would do things very differently. But I understand now what brought us to that place, and I've forgiven us both for it. Congrats to your relationship growth and survival! I relate closely to this place you were, I also lived there. It is good to see ones mistakes reflected back and see another strong couple ride the storm out and learn a great deal. Although, I never want to revisit that place, I can say I am much stronger after making it out of the suffering, mine and others. Hi chatterbox, just to clarify, we divorced. It was in therapy that I learned how unhealthy the marriage was and how destructive he was (and how codependent I was). He wasn't willing to work on it and I left. Cheating was my unhealthy way of trying to fill a very big void, until I learned to give myself a better life and eliminate that void entirely. My apologies if I gave the impression we worked things out. We did not, and I am in a great relationship now (with the Mister and with myself) and lying isn't an option.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 7:52:36 AM)
I misunderstood, whoops, Im sorry. But the beauty of it is, you are a survivor, and gained so much, and I am very happy for you and those surrounding you.

needlesandpins -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 8:09:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins if you are so miserable in a relationship that you need to cheat then leave. grow a set and leave first. needles An understandable statement but impractical advice. There was recent discussion about abuse and how the abused can be one so whittled away there is no strength left to leave. That she (or he) comes to believe they just deserve that misery. That there is very little hope. Would you tell that person to grow a set and leave? When I personally was in that place, cheating became a desperate lifeline. If for just an hour I could feel wanted and could experience human touch, even though I was even more hollowed out when I got home, more guilt ridden, more self loathing, it fed me for at least a little bit even though it hurt me more. Cheating is what prompted us into therapy ( he wouldn't go before) and therapy is what finally brought me the strength to "grow a set" as you put it. Otherwise I just felt hopeless and unworthy and yes, suicidal. Growing a set means having self respect. A broken person doesn't find that overnight. One last (maybe last) note: sometimes, as was the case with me, the cheaters partner won't help solve the problem. In my case, he denied any accountability for the state of our marriage and refused therapy until I told him I was leaving. I'm just saying its not always as easy as "Talk to your partner" or "Grow a set and leave". There are sometimes gaping emotional wounds that need healing first. Again, what I did was wrong and in retrospect I would do things very differently. But I understand now what brought us to that place, and I've forgiven us both for it. Sorry but yes I would. No matter what your circumstances are if you look to another for whatever reason then you need to leave unless it's agreed with your partner first. You don't need another person to grow. It's great to have someone there for support, but I don't see how someone so down trodden in an abusive relationship suddenly finds the balls and where-with-all to start an affair without shitting bricks constantly thinking that they will get caught. The mear fact that anybody looks to another should tell that person that their relationship is wrong. end what you have first before you lie and potentially tear that person apart. my ex didn't have any excuse for what he did to me the second time other than he was just a thoughtless cunt where I was concerned. he decided that some cheap fuck was worth his whole life with his family, and that that cheap fuck was worth the pain he caused me and the boy. it's all bullshit to justify having no ethics or honour. needles

kiwisub12 -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 8:23:53 AM)
I was in a marriage, where I worked more than full time, took total care of two kids (and he couldn't understand why I didn't want a third), did all the housework and yes, the grocery shopping. He worked more than full time and for four years finished his degree and got a masters - while working full time. It was like living with a lodger who had the right and duty to criticize how I was doing all the above - and then expect wild passionate sex. Irregardless of how tired I was, or how disconnected from him I was, or the fact that the only time he touched me - literally - was when he wanted sex. the emotional disconnect was so huge that there was little left in the marriage except my resentment at being used for physical release, and his ongoing tirade about not being supported. It comes as no shock to me that we divorced - the only shock was that he didn't cheat physically. Emotionally he had a couple of relationships with women that skirted the edges of cheating, because he was emotionally transparent with them in a way he wasn't with me. Primarily because, I think, he was intent on controlling what I did - vis-à-vis, doing all the housework and caring for the kids. The sad thing was, was if he had come in the door and said "you look tired, let me get dinner" or "I'll get the kids ready for bed" - I would have been so grateful that sex would have not been a chore. To me, sheer laziness on his part, or a disinclination to do anything physical (read - help around the house) to bolster our marriage killed it. Well, that and a complete lack of kindness. so ............ cheaters, if the wife doesn't want to put out, do the dishes on a regular basis, vacuum once in a while, pat her on the fanny and tell her how sexy she is - basically, create an emotional connection between the two of you. Recreate the connection you had when you first met. My life ground that basis for connection away, and I was too browbeaten to demand that we get it back. Of course, by the time you are there, it may be too late - but it may not!

pissdoll -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 10:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins Sorry but yes I would. No matter what your circumstances are if you look to another for whatever reason then you need to leave unless it's agreed with your partner first. You don't need another person to grow. It's great to have someone there for support, but I don't see how someone so down trodden in an abusive relationship suddenly finds the balls and where-with-all to start an affair without shitting bricks constantly thinking that they will get caught. The mear fact that anybody looks to another should tell that person that their relationship is wrong. end what you have first before you lie and potentially tear that person apart. my ex didn't have any excuse for what he did to me the second time other than he was just a thoughtless cunt where I was concerned. he decided that some cheap fuck was worth his whole life with his family, and that that cheap fuck was worth the pain he caused me and the boy. it's all bullshit to justify having no ethics or honour. needles i have never cheated on anyone, but here are my thoughts on cheating: yes, cheating is devastating. yet, there are many other things someone can do to their spouse that have no ethics or honor. it would be wonderful if everyone in the world had the psychological constitution to simply walk out when they know they are being wronged and when a relationship is over. but life isn't all that simple. there are so many reasons people choose to stay and cheat. sometimes it is because of children, or economic decisions, low self-esteem, etc. blaming the cheater, calling names, making snap judgements- i think i just have too much life experience now to do that. you can never look at another couple and know the "truth" about what is going on. and unless you really work hard as a couple every single day of your life, you're not going to have complete transparency in your relationship to understand your partner's motivations. is cheating a terrible thing to do? yeah, it really is. but so is denial of affection. so is denial of love. so is drug use. so is physical abuse. and hoarding. the list could go on and on. i think these should all be weighed approximately the same. but we don't do that. we can ignore all of the transgressions in the world until someone dips their cock where it doesn't belong.

needlesandpins -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 10:18:30 AM)
actually this thread is about cheating, not other things. also many of have stated that it is not just about where someone sticks their cock...and women cheat too. using the excuse of staying for the kids is as cheap a cop out as any other excuse you can have. as say I as both a child that was part of a family where one parent cheated, but they stayed together for us kids, and as a mother myself. I have never been stupid, I have ears that heard arguments (no matter how quiet they tried to be), and I knew about the affairs from being 8yrs old. it's a crappy situation to actually put kids in. There is no excuse for cheating that makes it right. also i'm at a loss as to why so many keep banging on about how the cheater is feeling, and that they do what they do because somehow there is a fault with their partner. suddenly we are supposed to feel sorry for the cheater, and understand that it was the other person's fault. fuck that. if you choose to cheat, lie, and deceive then you're being a bit of a cunt no matter what your excuse is. needles

NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 10:53:34 AM)
quote: it's all bullshit to justify having no ethics or honour. needles Well, to be clear, I wasn't justifying anything. The human psyche is far more complex than the simplifications some folks are making it out to be. I haven't walked in your shoes. I've been cheated on before, though. You haven't walked in my shoes. The atrocities and effects of what my ex did were far more damaging to me than being cheated on. The trick is getting through the anger and seeing life more clearly.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 11:02:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins also i'm at a loss as to why so many keep banging on about how the cheater is feeling, and that they do what they do because somehow there is a fault with their partner. suddenly we are supposed to feel sorry for the cheater, and understand that it was the other person's fault. fuck that. if you choose to cheat, lie, and deceive then you're being a bit of a cunt no matter what your excuse is. needles You're right. The thread is about cheating. And cheating is comprised of all parties involved. I'm certainly not trying to elicit sympathy; personally I find ALL the responses here to be interesting and somewhat fascinating, because of my curiosity in human behavior and what drives it. In marriage counseling we had a lot of discussion of how HE cheated me of the husband he had vowed to me. Those were some interesting conversations, as well. Again, once the anger is cleared, my ability to see and understand the complete picture was extremely revealing, and I learned a great deal about myself. Only then could forgiveness occur ( of myself, mostly) and a better life could be lived.

AAkasha -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 11:22:08 AM)
Fast reply. To the people that have the time to read this thread, and again, participate in evaluating hypothetical relationships and enjoy judging them (why, I have no idea). Take some time to go over to reddit and subscribe to a few subreddits - dead bedrooms, foreveralone, relationships. Read about some of the pain and suffering people are in when trying to navigate and do the right thing and for a moment put yourself in their shoes. And for a moment, don't judge, just be. Life is too short. I find that I should just worry about my own shit instead of judging other people. And one more suggestion: Every time you find yourself typing on a message board giving a random stranger the wagging finger for being an asshole cheating, for the purpose of karma, commit to do something extraordinarily kind for your partner within 60 minutes with no reciprocation. That includes "snark" posts. Blow job, flowers, wash the person's car, hand write a card, fuck them out of the blue. For EVERY post in that thread (for some people that might be 10 posts in one thread). Before the excuses roll in "I do that all anyway" -- man up and do something else or do it for someone else like a poor person on the corner (in that case obviously not sexual). Some good should come of all this bile. Akasha

needlesandpins -> RE: What do YOU* think about cheaters? And why?* (8/18/2013 11:49:58 AM)
are you actually suggesting that unless we all agree that cheaters all have the right to hurt others, lie, deceive, and whatever else is involved we can't actually give an opinion that differs? i'm sorry but I though this was a thread where the OP asked for EVERYONE'S opinion. hence forth we are allowed to give our opinions and comment on what others have said too. I have been cheated on twice by my ex, once by someone before him, and was myself the third party in someone cheating on his wife. my life experience has taught me that I was a bit of a cunt for doing what I did. no matter how I felt or what I got out of it.....nor the excuses he gave me as to why he was doing it, his wife didn't deserve the hurt it caused her. also my ex, and the one before him were cunts for doing what they did no matter what their excuses were. there were many times that I had the chance at having affairs, and by the comments in here I had more than cause to do so. however, I had given myself to this man, so he deserved better than that. he deserved for me to talk to him about what was making me unhappy thus giving us a chance to make it better, or for me to walk away. having been a part of it from both sides, and at times being in a shitty relationship I can say for sure that I really don't care what anyone's excuses are. they are just excuses. and seriously, judgemental? every single person in this thread has been judgemental, including yourself. needles

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