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Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/16/2013 9:39:45 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Did I miss the thread on Egypt?

With all the hell that is breaking loose in the land of the Pharaoh's, no one is talking about all the unrest in Egypt around here?

Time World---How the world is responding to the conflict in Egypt

I have always had a historical soft spot for Egypt, and I really hate seeing and hearing about the turmoil and upheaval going on there.

I would have loved to visit Egypt one day, and now it might be too late for that to ever happen.

The Muslim Brotherhood is relentless, and they are not backing down.

I can't help but feel that eventually a large group of countries are going to have to "have it out" with them, in some way and fight to the end.

Thoughts or feelings on the horrendous situation in Egypt anyone?

........land of the Pharaoh's........

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/16/2013 9:43:51 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/16/2013 9:49:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Did I miss the thread on Egypt?

With all the hell that is breaking loose in the land of the Pharaoh's, no one is talking about all the unrest in Egypt around here?

Time World---How the world is responding to the conflict in Egypt

I have always had a historical soft spot for Egypt, and I really hate seeing and hearing about the turmoil and upheaval going on there.

I would have loved to visit Egypt one day, and now it might be too late for that to ever happen.

The Muslim Brotherhood is relentless, and they are not backing down.

I can't help but feel that eventually a large group of countries are going to have to "have it out" with them, in some way and fight to the end.

Thoughts or feelings on the horrendous situation in Egypt anyone?

........land of the Pharaoh's........

It is what I expected the "Arab Spring" to turn into, while hoping I was wrong.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/16/2013 9:50:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Did I miss the thread on Egypt?

With all the hell that is breaking loose in the land of the Pharaoh's, no one is talking about all the unrest in Egypt around here?

Time World---How the world is responding to the conflict in Egypt

I have always had a historical soft spot for Egypt, and I really hate seeing and hearing about the turmoil and upheaval going on there.

I would have loved to visit Egypt one day, and now it might be too late for that to ever happen.

The Muslim Brotherhood is relentless, and they are not backing down.

I can't help but feel that eventually a large group of countries are going to have to "have it out" with them, in some way and fight to the end.

Thoughts or feelings on the horrendous situation in Egypt anyone?

........land of the Pharaoh's........

Yes when this started there was a thread where everyone was talking about a bloodless revolution.
Yours will be more founded in reality.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/16/2013 9:56:38 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I have been rather busy lately and I must have missed that thread.

I believe the situation has taken a turn since the initial thread, with all the recent bloodshed this week.

Thanks Bama



< Message edited by Marini -- 8/16/2013 9:57:40 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/16/2013 10:26:04 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I have been rather busy lately and I must have missed that thread.

I believe the situation has taken a turn since the initial thread, with all the recent bloodshed this week.

Thanks Bama



There had been over 20 deaths when the first thread came out, it died quickly.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 12:04:07 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		With something in excess of 600 deaths to date, and more expected, the situation in Egypt is clearly chaotic, verging on catastrophic. Sadly the violence was predictable, almost inevitable. Where did it all go wrong?

Morsi's Presidency was little short of a disaster. With his hands tied on side by the need to reward his Brotherhood base, and on the other by an over-riding need to keep the military onside, Morsi's decisions inflamed his political opponents and managed to alienate many of the masses who had voted him into power. Perversely, the military coup was welcomed by those who claim to support the democratic process and denounced by the MB and its few remaining allies. With so much blood spilled already and the inevitable prospect of more to come, it is difficult to see how either side can compromise. Will Egypt follow Syria into civil war? As things stand, the signs are not good. Denied access to power democratically won by an illegal military coup, and facing a military that has shown it will not stop at at any means to crush it, what other options does the MB still hold?

Generally, the demise of democracy was welcomed by the West, even if the West's leaders couldn't say it in so many words. The reaction of the Obama White House typifies this - refusing to denounce the coup as a "coup", while mouthing empty noises about the need to return to some vestige of democracy asap. Of course, everyone on the ground scornfully ignored the West's pathetic response.

Treated like village idiots by the Israelis. arming Al Quada-linked rebels in Syria, arming and supporting vicious despots in Saudi Arabia and other theocracies/monarchies, taking Iraq to the verge of civil war, acting belligerently towards Iran as punishment for (allegedly) daring to do what Israel has done for decades - develop nuclear weapons - without so much as a pip squeak of protest from the West, it is difficult to discern any coherence in US policy towards the region, if in fact there is a US policy at all. US irrelevance and impotence in the face a worsening situation across the region is the inevitable price the US pays for slavishly following Israeli dictates instead of developing a policy that suits US interests.

My greatest fear is that Arabs will conclude that democracy holds nothing for them, forcing them into more extreme positions, reviving AQ from its death bed and restoring AQ as a force to reckoned with in the Arab world. But after the tragic events in Egypt, and the ongoing punishment inflicted on Gazans for exercising their democratic choices, on what basis can we ask Arabs and Muslims to trust the ballot box in future?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/17/2013 12:16:06 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 12:22:15 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		My greatest fear is that Arabs will conclude that democracy holds nothing for them, forcing them into more extreme positions, reviving AQ from its death bed and restoring AQ as a force to reckoned with in the Arab world. But after the tragic events in Egypt, and similar punishment inflicted on Gazans for exercising their democratic choices, on what basis can we ask Arabs and Muslims to trust the ballot box in the future?

Unfortunately many in the Arab world, notably the AB, made that decision long ago.
Proclamations that the AB were moderates were simply self delusion.
AQ never died except in the dreams of western politicians, it has merely morphed into a less centralized form.
You are correct that it will get much worse before it gets better.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 12:28:06 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

My greatest fear is that Arabs will conclude that democracy holds nothing for them,



good for them for seeing through it!

let the corruption and cancer of the west stay in the west.




Israel is a democracy too!

Look how wonderful they turned out! lol






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/17/2013 12:50:29 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 3:05:35 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Never let a Hebrew sit on the throne of Egypt".

That just came up in normal conversation from what we're told.

I wil await responbses to that. I will await responses to fucking anything. With glee even, whatever that is.

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 3:32:58 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		In recent times the Muslim Brotherhood have been fairly peaceful in Egypt. We now have a military coup that seems to be acceptable to the West, with most Western leaders just giving lip service. There have been around a 1,000 deaths this week alone. Sadly more will follow. The West needs to decide which way it wants to go, are we in favour of democracy, even if it means those we are wary of being in control, or are we backing dictatorship.

If we back the latter, then we may just have killed off the idea of democracy world wide.

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:01:52 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

In recent times the Muslim Brotherhood have been fairly peaceful in Egypt. We now have a military coup that seems to be acceptable to the West, with most Western leaders just giving lip service. There have been around a 1,000 deaths this week alone. Sadly more will follow. The West needs to decide which way it wants to go, are we in favour of democracy, even if it means those we are wary of being in control, or are we backing dictatorship.

If we back the latter, then we may just have killed off the idea of democracy world wide.


Historically, we've only ever backed one kind of group...the ones that agree with us. The particular form of government hasn't always mattered. We're probably paying for their military to begin with.

But who says we really have to back anyone? I don't see any reason we can't simply say that we prefer democracy then let them fight it out for themselves. If the Arab Spring has taught us anything, it should be that the Middle East peoples, regardless of religious background, are ready to exercise some free will. I think that's more important than deciding right now who will lead them. Whatever form their democracies take, I think they will indeed choose democracy over anything else. I don't expect that will necessarily make us any allies or even friends but I do know that if we keep trying to decide for them we won't get anything but enemies.

Of course, it won't go that way because there are too many people who think they can control everything and once again, they'll fuck it up.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:06:04 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

If we back the latter, then we may just have killed off the idea of democracy world wide.


Are you fucking insane ? Tell me about the democracy in Suadi, YES SAUDI Arabia. Spill it boy, I want to hear about all the fucking freedom and democracy the US dollars have bestowed there.

take your interventionist, colonialiost attitude to Antarctica where it belings. We have not the soldiers, bullets and dollars to support your worldwide ideal.

Sorry bout thaat.

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:08:07 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

If the Arab Spring has taught us anything,


Noww that would be great. Quit teasing us.....

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:09:42 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The West needs to decide which way it wants to go, are we in favour of democracy, even if it means those we are wary of being in control, or are we backing dictatorship.

From what I've read and heard, the Morsi government stopped being democratic pretty much as soon as it was elected. Instead it set about instituting creeping Sharia, paying little or no attention to the large numbers of secular Egyptians and doing nothing to protect the Egyptian Copts. It's all well and good to praise democratic elections, but democracy doesn't stop there. The Egyptian military has the conspicuous support of the majority of the Egyptian people, while the Muslim Brotherhood, in the name of "democracy," is waving black Al Queda flags and attacking everybody who doesn't agree with them. There's even a priceless photo showing one of them wearing an Obama tshirt.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/17/2013 4:13:18 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:14:26 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
There's even a priceless photo showing one of them wearing an Obama tshirt.

Really? You gotta post that!

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:20:59 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

From what I've read and heard,


Let them bitch, FUCK IT.

THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WANTED A GOVERNMENT THAT WAS NOT AS FRIENDLY WITH ISRAEL.

Come on. I am here.

ETA also they are in the N.A.M. which coprises over 130 countries and members are not aligned with guess who. check it out - the Non Aligned Movement are not aligned with the US and Israel. They met is Iran the other year. The US "President" did not attend and neither did Bibi because THEY are what they are non-aligned against ! Think nothing of it, the media blows it off so it means nothing right ?

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 8/17/2013 4:27:54 AM >

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:27:06 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

Really? You gotta post that!

Well that's what it was reported as being by the guy who caught it, and it looks like him to me. Obama supported Morsi, of course, and last I heard he was calling for Morsi's release. So it makes sense.

K.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:31:16 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Is that what happens when guys are too drunk to burn their bra ?

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:33:53 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		OMG OMG I AM SO SORRY. OMG OMG I AM SO SORRY.

I mentioned casual drinking. Like when I "quoted" Tommy Chong.

Please don't, oh, ON THE OTHER HAND.................................

T^T^T

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RE: Thoughts on Egypt, Land of the Pharaoh's? - 8/17/2013 4:35:04 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		I want answers on this, and you know who you are.

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