RE: What makes it a war crime?

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BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 7:06:17 PM)
What gets in the way of this is not the logical mind, but the legal mind.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 7:16:42 PM)
What makes it a war crime? 1387 hits / 180 posts = 7.7 (down from 7.8) hits per post What does contemporary feminism do for men? 1630 hits / 164 posts = 9.9 (down from 10.5) hits per post Interesting, there was only a loss of one basis point. Whereas in the other thread there was a loss of six basis points.

tdavis1210 -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 8:45:09 PM)
As a vet, remembering the training I received on this very topic, I always marveled at the patent absurdity of it all. Nukes and flamethrowers are a-ok, but poison gas and hollow point ammo are carrying things too far. No political compromise piece of paper is going to end or 'humanize' war, we have to change the way we think and act. Frankly, nothing I've seen in my life, makes me particularly hopeful in that regard.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 9:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tdavis1210 As a vet, remembering the training I received on this very topic, I always marveled at the patent absurdity of it all. Nukes and flamethrowers are a-ok, but poison gas and hollow point ammo are carrying things too far. No political compromise piece of paper is going to end or 'humanize' war, we have to change the way we think and act. Frankly, nothing I've seen in my life, makes me particularly hopeful in that regard. I am not a vet and therefore it is not impossible that my thinking is naive, but having said that, from a pragmatic point of view I would have to agree with you. It cannot be in truth be about a pollyannish fantasy. It has to be about something more. It nonetheless helps. It helps build the case for war. Would the middle east have the courage to wage war if we did not bring it to them? 911 gave us poignant evidence that they indeed do have the courage to carry through with their threats. I believe we can trust the Russians given how they conducted themselves during the cold war. They kept a level head. The Russians are not stupid. The Russians on the other hand may be willing to give us a hard time. Why give us an easy time of it? Geopolitical control of the middle east may be reason to go to war. Something has to make worth our trouble. It is a lot of ugliness and for what? The legal mind on the other hand says, we must proceed having nothing to make it worth our while. It must be an act of goodness, but how could it be? Your white garment will be soaked in blood by days end. War can only be at best the lesser of two evils. The evil of doing nothing verses the evil of doing something. Though the legal argument is fundamentally absurd, it is helpful nonetheless. It helps explain, why now? We have reached a cross roads. (1) We wait until Iran has the bomb. (2) We act now. If we act now we at least have a consolation prize. We did not make war before it was necessary to do so. We waited until we had an excuse.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 9:42:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tdavis1210 As a vet, remembering the training I received on this very topic, I always marveled at the patent absurdity of it all. Nukes and flamethrowers are a-ok, but poison gas and hollow point ammo are carrying things too far. No political compromise piece of paper is going to end or 'humanize' war, we have to change the way we think and act. Frankly, nothing I've seen in my life, makes me particularly hopeful in that regard. I recall what MasterCaneman wrote. I just can't find where he wrote it though. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman I'd be okay with the Swedish Model if it included actual Swedish models...[;)] No, it wasn't that one. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman The only way they could do that is to engage in a regional conflict. China does not possess the logistics train the US has developed over the past six decades to support overseas operations. ... No, it wasn't that one. I recall him explaining why weapons that wound are prevalent in modern warfare. A weapon that wounds results in more soldiers being taken out of action than a weapon that outright kills you. Using this logic then hollow point ammo is counter productive and fewer loved ones return home. So what is the hollow point?

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:32:27 PM)
http://www.thenation.com/blog/173396/way-worse-dumb-war-iraq-ten-years-later Ironically, it was President Obama who was President when much of the dismantling occurred. What caused President Obama to change his mind? Why is President Obama siding with Bush and Cheney?

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:38:24 PM)
Obama tried and failed. War will be an admission that Bush and Cheney were right.

thompsonx -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 6:32:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Obama tried and failed. War will be an admission that Bush and Cheney were right. Or perhaps it means that there is no difference between them.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 1:23:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Obama tried and failed. War will be an admission that Bush and Cheney were right. Or perhaps it means that there is no difference between them. It is depressing to think about all the money that was spent on the war in Iraq and how it could have been better spent. Iraq gave up an golden opportunity, the opportunity not to have to spend money on national defense. Kuwait failed to spend enough and look at what happened to them, but we have more going for us than Kuwait. We are at a cross roads. Was Bush and Cheney right or were they wrong? There is something seriously wrong with our healthcare system. The Republicans whine about the expense, but were not concerned with how expensive the war in Iraq was nor with the loss of life. Though I felt relieved that Osama bin Laden is no longer with us it also upset me that Obama chose not to uphold the precepts of law. We had an opportunity to capture him and failed to do so. This is not what a law man does. I can see how not killing him would have been problematic, but isn't that cowardly? Though the Democrats were for healthcare reform, they were opposed to what the Church teaches on the dignity of life. The Democrats whine about hypocracy, but are unwilling to face up their own hypocracies. It is ugly. It is all so ugly. Our ego was such that we couldn't take what happened to us on 911. As Michael Moore pointed out, we didn't give a damn about the people. That people were killed is not what bothered us. We were humiliated and for that someone had to pay. We were out for revenge. As such we never won the ideological war. We were far to willing to wallow in the mud as do pigs for us to have won that. We were the prize fighter who brought brass knuckles to the ring. We got Osama bin Laden, but exactly how did we do it? We did it by upholding the rule of law? Obama now thinks he can prance the rule of law about and tell everyone how righteous we are? It is a wee bit hypocritical. Regardless of whether or not it is hypocritical, we are at a cross roads. We thought the matter was decided when we elected Obama. Were we naive? The problem with the Bush-Cheney doctrine is that it must survive administrations. It was a long range vision where the United States has geopolitical control of the middle east. We made a hefty investment in that direction already. There is a vested interest to continue the plan to fruition. That we spilt blood there is a vested interest. There were no doubt many intellectuals who cogitated doing this and why it was important to do this over a period of decades. As such 911 was an excuse and so are these weapons of mass destruction charges. Is it our manifest destiny to rule the world? Some would say yes, it is for we too have our own brand of ethics that permits us to justify a great deal just as our adversaries do. Osama bin Laden had his excuse and so do we.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 2:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM This is not what a law man does. No doubt President Obama had legal counsel that gave him the green light, but is that enough to get him off the hook? Not really. The problem is it is foundational. It is what a law man stands for. It is the very symbol of law and order.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 9:01:37 PM)
This is something I posted yesterday in 10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address http://www.collarchat.com/m_4543322/tm.htm that I feel should have been posted here. quote: PRESIDENT OBAMA: ... I have, therefore, asked the leaders of Congress to postpone a vote to authorize the use of force while we pursue this diplomatic path. ... Even Bush one and two initially pursued a diplomatic path. I am adding the following text: Hence, it will not be to Obama's credit if he pursues a diplomatic solution. In fact, if Obama chooses to go to war, it may turn out that he spent less time pursuing a diplomatic solution than did Bush.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 9:17:58 PM)
To reiterate. If President Obama has sided with Bush, at least pay Bush the courtesy of saying to Bush, "The country turned against you, but you were in the right and I see that now." Perhaps Bush and the Republican party will be gracious. Bush was gracious to Putin. Bush was even criticized for it.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/12/2013 9:45:25 PM)
Why bother? If you go to war at least enter the war with the intention of winning. Such an apology could unite the factions. When America puts it mind to something, there is nothing it cannot do. It would also be the decent thing to do. Perhaps I'm a simpleton to believe that such things are possible.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/13/2013 11:27:49 PM)
What makes it a war crime? 1508 hits / 192 posts = 7.9 hits per post, up from 7.7

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 8:27:30 PM)
The following post touches on the subject of its original thread and this one and so needed to be posted in both places. quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I pointed out in another thread What makes it a war crime? http://www.collarchat.com/m_4536133/tm.htm that a relationship exists between opposites. I pointed out that the Orwellian war is peace is not altogether untrue. A new harmony often brings about a new imbalance. Does the very notion of a war crime, for example, encourage war? It does. Was it intended to encourage war? No. The fact is that it does. It encourages wars which are police actions, but as I pointed out that no war can be regarded as a police action. Instead of having to concern yourself with being stalked by a predator such as a lion, what you get is a world where you are surrounded by cold blooded crocodiles. The more things change, the more they remain the same. So instead of engaging in war on occasion you engage in war continuously, but the wars are less deadly. Half a dozen one or the other has anything really changed? It is the cold war all over again. In a moment Rod Serling will step out. You live in a country ... , but what you didn't know is you entered The Twilight Zone.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 8:50:28 PM)
So if you take the position that it really was about weapons of mass destruction you are screwed. No one believed you because to engage in a war over a war crime allegation is nuts. In order for it to have been sane, it had to be about oil or geopolitical control of the middle east. A man of peace shits on the work of the man of war. After having shit on Bush was the likelihood of war in the future demised or was it enhanced? A new harmony could be forged, but how was this new harmony forged? It disgraced the man of war. As such what precisely was accomplished? It saddened me to see the French dishonored over an honest disagreement. We should have been less petulant and said we respectfully disagree and left it at that. Sin unfortunately renders solutions to problems impossible. Forgiveness of sin brings hope. Can the Republicans forgive the Democrats? Can the Democrats forgive the Republicans? Can the French ever forgive us? You British lovers!

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 9:01:30 PM)
What I enunciated is the theory of Sin. Due to Sin, everything has a disagreeable side effect. If it is not your Sin, it is their Sin. The ball gets past around in a cycle and no problem is ever solved.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 9:19:36 PM)
What have I described? I described a man of peace lacking in purity.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 9:21:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM What have I described? I described a man of peace lacking in purity. In other words, an anti-Christ.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/17/2013 9:26:22 PM)
Goodness cannot be half baked. It must be so total that it can warp space and time.

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