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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 3:39:32 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Please excuse my ignorance, but why is the use of sarin gas a war crime? Because it kills people? How does sarin gas differ from conventional weapons? For example, what makes sarin gas more terrible than napalm? Would anyone be rising concerns if napalm was being used?

There is no property damage. You wipe them out, bury them in a mass grave, walk away, you move in, drink their beer and watch football on their wide screen TV, life is good. There are no long term side effects like radiation. This suggests that sarin gas is an elegant weapon. Perhaps that is the concern. It is too elegant a solution. Because it is an elegant solution it is tempting. Before you know it everyone and their brother will be using it on their neighbors. Don't like the neighbors next door? Need an extra house?


Because it was outlawed via the Geneva Convention by all the known world powers at that time and is now (like a red octagonal sign means stop...regardless of the language used on same) considered to be one of the "world" laws, applicable to all world citizens, regardless of politics.


Because in a Democracy you need something more than it's the law. You need consent of the governed. This implies the need for a universally agreed upon rationale. World War I is now at the edge of becoming a distant memory. As such what makes the use of chemical weapons a war crime is no longer self-evident. It is a knee jerk reaction, it's the law. If we commit ourselves to war, shouldn't we at least know what we are fighting for?

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 4:26:07 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Take that red haired nut job from Colorado. He may have killed and injured as many people a single person can kill and injure at a single event with an automatic weapon. Objectively speaking, was everyone in the movie theatre killed or injured? No. If he had used a chemical weapon, no one would have left that theatre without the need for medical attention.

Should we stomp this disease out as we would with an antibiotic? Put down the government and the rebels alike and rid Syria fully of its pestilence. "Time for a bit of the ol' ultra violence my dear brothers." Title Music from 'A Clockwork Orange' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPz_nq63bLM

The war in Iraq was the type of war the Republicans could relate to. The War in Syria is the type of war the Democrats I believe could relate to. Perhaps no one else besides the United States will have the yarbles to do it. Perhaps the Democrats will soon experience what the Republicans faced and come to the same conclusions. If this is the case, may it bring peace not war between our fellow country men, be they Democrats or Republicans.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 4:29:35 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Please excuse my ignorance, but why is the use of sarin gas a war crime? Because it kills people? How does sarin gas differ from conventional weapons? For example, what makes sarin gas more terrible than napalm? Would anyone be rising concerns if napalm was being used?

There is no property damage. You wipe them out, bury them in a mass grave, walk away, you move in, drink their beer and watch football on their wide screen TV, life is good. There are no long term side effects like radiation. This suggests that sarin gas is an elegant weapon. Perhaps that is the concern. It is too elegant a solution. Because it is an elegant solution it is tempting. Before you know it everyone and their brother will be using it on their neighbors. Don't like the neighbors next door? Need an extra house?


Because it was outlawed via the Geneva Convention by all the known world powers at that time and is now (like a red octagonal sign means stop...regardless of the language used on same) considered to be one of the "world" laws, applicable to all world citizens, regardless of politics.


Because in a Democracy you need something more than it's the law. You need consent of the governed. This implies the need for a universally agreed upon rationale. World War I is now at the edge of becoming a distant memory. As such what makes the use of chemical weapons a war crime is no longer self-evident. It is a knee jerk reaction, it's the law. If we commit ourselves to war, shouldn't we at least know what we are fighting for?


Yes, but....this is a U.N. problem....NOT a U.S. problem.

If the U.N. decides it's something to deal with, then they have the power (and World authority) to demand that a percentage of those who signed the U.N. Powers Act to comply, in the EXACT percentage that they are a part of the U.N. compliance team, regardless of politics....for or against, they are obligated to comply...they are simply obligated to do so, and if they refuse, they can therefore be arbitrarily removed from the authority to act (unilaterally or otherwise), forevermore.

Let the U.N. decide what to do and then, as signatory, we....and others....will fulfill our (collective) responsibilities.

This is NOT a U.S. responsibility, regardless of how badly Saudi Arabia wishes it were otherwise.

I find it more than fascinating that the U.N., on this matter, has stood down.

I think that's more than rather telling.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 5:04:47 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Post 248 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4535688 Mono vs poly?
What I wrote there I feel is relevant here as well and as such it is worth reproducing:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

In order for it to be real, what your submissive gives you must not be total in a mathematical sense.


As such her surrender must not be perfect. It must admit to a contradiction or hypocrisy by say for example admitting to a limit. That limit could be to say no to polygamy. Only by enforcing the limit may the TPE relationship be real. Limits can be foundational. Because they are often foundational, they are often a line drawn in the sand, buddy you had best not cross this line or else.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 5:15:30 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Yes, but....this is a U.N. problem....NOT a U.S. problem.

...

I find it more than fascinating that the U.N., on this matter, has stood down.

I think that's more than rather telling.


Yes, it is telling. For example, we could make it attractive for France to declare war. In the end, however, it may turn out that George Bush and Barack Obama may arrive at the same conclusions. If they do, there will be an opportunity to kiss and make up. That way we could enter the war with the agreement of both parties.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 5:41:15 PM   
Kana


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quote:


Yes, but....this is a U.N. problem....NOT a U.S. problem.

So full of yes.
Why do we have to be the worlds policemen? Other nations can take the lead here.If we as a civilization are truly horrified, then we'll get some action

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 6:03:23 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:


Yes, but....this is a U.N. problem....NOT a U.S. problem.

So full of yes.
Why do we have to be the worlds policemen? Other nations can take the lead here.If we as a civilization are truly horrified, then we'll get some action


There is the old example of how Europe responded to Nazi aggression. Maybe George Bush was more idealistic than we give him credit for. That there was a monetary incentive to invade Iraq was grease that made the wheels turn, but nothing more. Maybe Bush was truly horrified. Having to police the world comes with the territory when you are top dog.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 6:48:58 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		In the news

Sweden grants blanket asylum to Syrian refugees
http://www.france24.com/en/20130903-sweden-grants-blanket-asylum-syrian-refugees

French and Russian warships 'head for Syria'
http://www.france24.com/en/20130829-france-russia-warships-mediterranean-syria

Why was head quoted?

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 6:50:25 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

In the news

Sweden grants blanket asylum to Syrian refugees
http://www.france24.com/en/20130903-sweden-grants-blanket-asylum-syrian-refugees


Will y'all make sure Ashjor knows about this?

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:00:57 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		http://www.france24.com/en/20130902-uk-approved-nerve-gas-chemical-weapons-exports-syria
Naughty, naughty.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:11:20 PM   
BenevolentM


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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		This is a good for a laugh.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130901-egypt-detains-bird-tracked-french-scientists-suspected-spying

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:29:51 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		This article is more on point.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130827-france-punish-syrian-chemical-attack-hollande

quote:

President François Hollande told a gathering of French ambassadors Tuesday that France is ready to "punish" those responsible for a suspected poison gas attack near Damascus last week, calling it a "heinous decision to gas innocents".

...

"I have decided to increase our military support to the Syrian National Coalition," he said without elaborating.


Maybe it is a way to end the war. Is a bullet to the head any less heinous? Would Syria be better off in the hands of the rebels? I say don't take sides. Create a new neutral Syrian government.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:39:49 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Do the same thing that Nelson Mandela did in South Africa.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:44:46 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

This article is more on point.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130827-france-punish-syrian-chemical-attack-hollande

quote:

President François Hollande told a gathering of French ambassadors Tuesday that France is ready to "punish" those responsible for a suspected poison gas attack near Damascus last week, calling it a "heinous decision to gas innocents".

...

"I have decided to increase our military support to the Syrian National Coalition," he said without elaborating.


Maybe it is a way to end the war. Is a bullet to the head any less heinous? Would Syria be better off in the hands of the rebels? I say don't take sides. Create a new neutral Syrian government.


The only time France has ever won a war is when they get someone else to do most of the fighting. This is bad news. This means that the US might get drawn into it, just to pull their fat out of the fire. Sacré bleu!



Pas,



Napolean Bonaparte

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:55:04 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Do the same thing that Nelson Mandela did in South Africa.


I recommend watching the film Invictus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invictus_(film).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

The only time France has ever won a war is when they get someone else to do most of the fighting.


That is why France might go for it. We could seal the deal. It would help restore their national pride and we avoid the bad publicity. For the American people it could mean more French fashion, food, etc. It would be stimulating to the economy of both nations.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 7:57:28 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Personally, I think it is fucking time the US quit pushing its nose into the middle east. Help our allies and let the others tear themselves apart.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 8:05:00 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What I am advocating is going in and doing it right. Half measures are not going to work. Back one side or the other and it is going to blow up in your face. What this suggests is that once the wheels start turning the war crimes charges may need to be dropped to the relief of the UK. What matters was whether it was excuse enough to get the ball rolling.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 8:11:14 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		John Cleese had some interesting thoughts about how Europe is viewing this Syrian situation. What he said about France was:

quote:

ORIGINAL

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France ‘s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability





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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 8:12:44 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Take what we learned in the Iraq war that our generals already knew, those who refused to go along with the program. There is more to winning a war than winning the initial battles of that war. A Master Plan is Needed.

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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/3/2013 8:18:35 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The French could help draft that Master Plan.

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