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RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/1/2013 10:39:31 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		It has never been our proper role. It has been a way for us to try and gain allies or advantages in regions we wanted to influence. Trying to gain influence in those regions is what must be examined. The alliance between Russia, China and Iran is actually very formidable from a influence point of view. I think a more Sun Tzu tactic should be adopted, so that when our enemies or adversaries try and draw us in we do not go, nor do we withdraw. We remain as we are and only move when we decide to act on our own interest, instead of react on others.

As an aside, I believe this a very important topic and the posters that have tried to detract from it, because of personal issues with who started the topic, are being hypocritical and trollish. Stop trying to derail and hijack topics that are actually important. You are showing how childish your posts are by attacking the person posting, instead of the post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.

Discuss


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/1/2013 10:48:27 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.


When conservatives hold the people they vote into office to the same level (if not twice to be honest) of accountability and responsibility of the power they wield as they slam President Obama on an hourly basis; none of them would ever get elected to office. You want to blame President Obama for taking an action towards Syria that he has not made yet? Fine. Where are all the threads you started of former Presidents George H. W. Bush and his son, George W. Bush complaining about them acting in the same roll? They don't seem to exist on collarme.....

People have promoted this view of 'Why does the USA have to be the world police' since before former President Roosevelt was in office. Well....when you have 11 nuclear carrier tasks forces, you got to do something with them. Or else why are we spending more on our defense budget then the next ten largest countries for their defense budgets? We can play this argument back and forth and frankly its irrelevant. You have NEVER liked President Obama as can be reasonably gathered from your hundreds of posts spanning the time frame before he was ever elected to the White House. An so any chance you get to slam the guy you'll take. I'm fine with that. But when you do not hold the people you elect to actually get to public office to twice the level of accountability and responsibility as you attack Democrats, why should anyone really take your view(s) seriously?


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/1/2013 11:56:54 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Like I said kinkroids, this will be cosmetic bombing and another scene in very early dress-rehearsal for total US (naval) military control almost world-wide.

I don't believe anything from either side about the use of these weapons just like I didn't believe that Obama and the seals killed Bin Laden. (for fuck sake people OBL was having kidney dialysis in Yemen 8/01, about a month prior to 9/11 obviously, was already old and suffering acute needs and we are to believe he lived another 11 years ? Unmitigated bullshit especially given we had his ass at Tora Bora by the summer of 2002 and on the highest orders...was allowed to go to Pakistan.

We'll fire in a few pin pricks, declare chemical weapons exist no more in Syria and go home. Our 'word' whatever that is will be kept, the US military hegemony will continue to march on. (the exception being that we keep a carrier group and have for decades on patrol in the Med. sea.)

This is a very slow march to unlike the British empire that later became a debate of whether it was for trade, to civilize or conquest supported by far the world's largest navy, to a sort of US engineered status quo based on our far superior navy.

'Ours' is for a future where all conflict will be at our behest, or ended...at our behest.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 12:20:58 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you, Orion.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 12:37:11 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I see a lot of smoke and blather in your reply, Joether, but your post seems to have fled the question in a bladder and bowel loosed fashion. I find myself completely unsurprised by this.

By the time I got a 'puter and started playing on the internet in '05, we already owned the Iraq situation that had been created by a President I didn't vote for, and Congressionally endorsed when the Dems found they couldn't hold their bladders or bowels in the face of Bush II. That might explain the difficulties in the alleged search.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 12:39:20 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for reminding me, Rodgers. I need to pick up a roll of foil for the camping trip.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 3:58:48 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama should be smart enough to repeat the same mistakes, but he painted himself into a corner with his line in the sand. He will make the same mistake and it won't work out well for him or the USA.


Correct, his remark about "A line in the sand" was hardly well thought through. If he said it as a bluff, he has been called on it.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 4:01:22 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Lets say I lived in Florida with my family and this other family lived in California. I heard it was a violent family and the kids were suffering. Its a long history of generations of violence in this family. Now all over the place in my own neighborhood and state even, the same thing is going on to some extent, but I focus on this family, that has no direct ties to us, thousands of miles way.
I decide to go there, and beat up the parents or kill them even. I decide I am the law, and I take it all upon myself. Because they are bad people, and while I do that I destroy the household. I decide to really teach those parents a lesson. So I burn their house down too. That ought to teach them. I do it all in front of the kids, and as I leave I say "There I fixed that for you now, I saved you" Do you think those children find me their savior?

Looking weak should be the last of our concerns. But of course we have to save face? Please. All propaganda, war or weak. There are more options then that but it appears some use that for the only options.






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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 4:46:21 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

It has never been our proper role. It has been a way for us to try and gain allies or advantages in regions we wanted to influence. Trying to gain influence in those regions is what must be examined. The alliance between Russia, China and Iran is actually very formidable from a influence point of view. I think a more Sun Tzu tactic should be adopted, so that when our enemies or adversaries try and draw us in we do not go, nor do we withdraw. We remain as we are and only move when we decide to act on our own interest, instead of react on others.

As an aside, I believe this a very important topic and the posters that have tried to detract from it, because of personal issues with who started the topic, are being hypocritical and trollish. Stop trying to derail and hijack topics that are actually important. You are showing how childish your posts are by attacking the person posting, instead of the post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.

Discuss


While I agree with your first paragraph Orion, I have to take a second to respond to the second.
My response...yes, childish, maybe, simply because a) I dont believe the concept, and refuse to get into such hyperbole because im a foreigner..and have been told time and time again by the OP that my thoughts are not required.
b) I refuse to get drawn into more shit flinging about Americas role in the world arena. And the second guessing*wrongly as usual* about my approval, simply because it is an Obama initiative.


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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 5:21:12 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RomanticRebel

Funny, I didn't hear an outcry from conservatives when we invaded Iraq without cause...



Funny, I know a lot of conservatives who didn't think we should have gone. Perhaps you should get out more.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 5:26:12 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.

Discuss



I don't think it is exceptional and I don't think we should be playing police either. I agree with the ones who say we should stay out of other countries business unless they are threatening other countries. And I think it is funny as hell to watch the ones who were so against it when it was a republican in office come up with excuse after excuse on why it's ok when there is a democrat in office.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 5:41:36 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.

Discuss



I don't think it is exceptional and I don't think we should be playing police either. I agree with the ones who say we should stay out of other countries business unless they are threatening other countries. And I think it is funny as hell to watch the ones who were so against it when it was a republican in office come up with excuse after excuse on why it's ok when there is a democrat in office.


who has claimed its ok to go to war??


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 5:50:25 AM   
ChristheBoy


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/27/2010
Status: offline
'Ours' is for a future where all conflict will be at our behest, or ended...at our behest.

Mr. Rodgers, maybe I read your post wrong, maybe your last comment was a sarcastic one, but if you truly believe that all conflicts will be started and resolved by the USA I wonder how you justify that rhetoric?

When the Allies effectively ended WW2 the Germans were disarmed and all fighting ceased. Europe was rebuilt and prospered as it grew into the end of the century and this one. Other than a few neo-Nazi idiots still spray painting graffiti swastikas, the aggressive German war machine has been replaced by a productive democratic country that participates in the good of Europe.

Since then, the USA has fought against North Korea, who is still technically at war with us 60 years later. You fled Vietnam with your tail between your legs, Afghanistan is still a war torn nation where savages rule. Iraq is in a constant civil war were women's rights and rights in general have regressed by 100 years, although you managed to keep Russian bases out of Cuba (partial victory) you failed to remove Castro for 50 years. You bombed Cambodia, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, guatamala, sudan, congo......

None of those nations has today a democratically elected government. When every president who attacked has always declared that they are going to defend democratic freedoms and principals.

Before stating that the US will decide if and when it will start or stop a fight, maybe you want to actually end on properly before making that declaration. The victory of 1945 is a dim memory in most peoples minds now a days.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 5:53:06 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The United States is morally distinct and exceptional among the nations of the Earth, and acting as a police force on the world stage, including within the boundaries of other sovereign nations, is our proper role.

Discuss



I don't think it is exceptional and I don't think we should be playing police either. I agree with the ones who say we should stay out of other countries business unless they are threatening other countries. And I think it is funny as hell to watch the ones who were so against it when it was a republican in office come up with excuse after excuse on why it's ok when there is a democrat in office.


who has claimed its ok to go to war??



Well the last one was the couple last night who couldn't understand why everyone was comparing this to Bush. They felt that Bush used the war for political gain and the people in Iraq didn't want us there. Obama on the other hand is only trying to help those who can't help themselves and everyone hates him for it. Their only problem with the situation is we are taking so long to do anything.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 6:04:37 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		please point out the post? because I dont beleive they were affirming a need for war, but responding to the point of going to congress versus deciding on his own, I am quite happy to admit Im wrong, but please give me a clue.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 6:07:53 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

please point out the post? because I dont beleive they were affirming a need for war, but responding to the point of going to congress versus deciding on his own, I am quite happy to admit Im wrong, but please give me a clue.


There is no post. It was a conversation held at work last night. And yes they were quite clear on the need to go in and save those poor people.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 6:09:09 AM   
ChristheBoy


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/27/2010
Status: offline 		Joether,

You are right about the posters here having double standards. When Bush1 and Bush2 invaded they are heroes when Clinton and Obama act the same way they are persecuted. When Khadafy was supporting terrorism and Clinton slammed a few missiles into his training camps, and he also tried to hunt Bin Laden, the republican media accused him of trying to deflect the issue of his womanizing. (let's not forget the republican congress approved more CIA operations to investigate the Whitewater and Lewinsky affairs than they approved for investigating terrorism.

When Bush2 invaded Iraq which had been compliant with the UN embargos and No fly zones, he was there to promote democracy and freedom. The first news report from inside Iraq that I saw was an American reporter saying that the US troops had liberated the offices of the Oil Ministries. While this was going on, the libraries and Museums of one of the worlds oldest civilizations were being destroyed by looters and vandals.

Definitely double standards by Repubicans

Now as far as the US policing the world. Mind your own damn business. You have 11 carrier fleets, good for you. Maybe if you had a few less and stopped spending billions in the middle east, cities like Detroit would not be bankrupt. Your government can't blow it's nose without borrowing money from the Chinese to buy the box of Kleenex. Now should Iran invade Israel or Turkey, sure, go defend your allies. A civil war in Syria??? Let them solve it. Assad and the rebels are both terrorists, either way you are either supporting a terrorist. And if you chose the wrong side, the victor may have a few car bombs or other plots waiting for you next year. Even if you chose the right side, they will have a car bomb or other plot waiting for you 2 years in the future. All the arabs hate you. Just stay out of their business.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 6:09:56 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		ah I see the disconnect:) thanks

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( (> A NASTY
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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 6:18:01 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe if you had a few less and stopped spending billions in the middle east, cities like Detroit would not be bankrupt.


Hate to break it to you but Detroit would still be bankrupt. The politicians who have been stealing right and left from it might be better off, but the city would still be screwed. Now you could try and blame the right for it, but Detroit has been in control by the left since I was born and it doesn't seem to be working very well for them. Perhaps it's time for a little hope and change.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Team America - World Police: The Obama Years - 9/2/2013 7:22:42 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		a) What concept? Many in the US want the US Military to be the world police. This has happened regardless of party and for many decades now. As far as a foreigner goes, I believe in instances like this an outside view is often necessary to the discussion

b) If you refuse, then why post at all? What is the point to belittle the post, especially when others may find value in it and wish to discuss it?

Anyway, I will continue to read and maybe something decent will come out of this discussion, but likely it will be just more of the back and forth of partisanship.

Back to the OP, does anyone on the forums actually believe we should be the world's police?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

While I agree with your first paragraph Orion, I have to take a second to respond to the second.
My response...yes, childish, maybe, simply because a) I dont believe the concept, and refuse to get into such hyperbole because im a foreigner..and have been told time and time again by the OP that my thoughts are not required.
b) I refuse to get drawn into more shit flinging about Americas role in the world arena. And the second guessing*wrongly as usual* about my approval, simply because it is an Obama initiative.




_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 40
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