Ordering Statements

Ordering Statements (Full Version)

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sunshinemiss -> Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 1:34:33 AM)
On another thread, there is an interesting idea that has been mentioned, and I'm curious about it. Aries 83 stated, "If it's gestures I want... I will just command them... Even if it's something as 'special' as saying 'I love you'... I'll just make them tell me." That got me to thinking...(buckle up!) Words are tools, and we use them in various ways - they have no purpose if they aren't used to help us. I've been in situations where people have tried to get me to say things that weren't true or that I didn't believe or tried to convince me of something or admit to something that just wasn't. I am generally a pretty honest, although a fairly private and generally kind person. If I tell you something, it is true as I understand it. But I will also do my best to see the positive in it (I don't always succeed, but I do try). A few examples: If you ask me what I think of your new haircut, and I can see you are really thrilled with it and I don't really like it, my response will probably be something along the lines of, "I am SO glad you are happy with your hair. Doesn't it feel great when you get a cut that makes you feel good?!" All of that is true, and it doesn't take away the person's thunder of excitement, AND it addressed what I consider the original intent - bonding. And frankly, does it really matter what I think of their new haircut? What matters in the scheme of things is that you are happy and I am cheering you on. If you ask me if I believe that X is ok / moral / acceptable, and I have no opinion about it, I will tell you that I have no opinion about it or that I respect that YOU have an opinion about it, but it hasn't been an issue in my own life up to this point. Again, all true, but nothing particular to hang your hat on, so to speak. I'm NOT going to say something is dreadful when I don't believe that to be true, nor am I going to toot the horn of the opposite if I don't think the opposite is true. And then there is the mind fuck. Try to get the s-type to say something that they don't believe is true, and you can't convince them that you are right? Not gonna happen... except...when it happens. There was a time I was with someone who told me they wanted me to admit that I had done something that I hadn't done. (This has happened several times come to think of it). I've responded in a number of ways. I listen, try to see the other person's point of view, express my own, and try to find anything that is my part in a disagreement, take responsibility, etc. All the grown up stuff. But a few times, people have continued to harp on a particular incident. All very accusatory. I was flat out ordered to admit I'd done something I hadn't done. I refused to admit to it. (Mind you, if I am at fault, I admit it - even if only partially at fault, I'll admit to my part). Anyway, I refused... and refused... and refused. It was a thing of honor for me, integrity. I have walked away, I have asked that we agree to disagree, I've asked to re-visit it when cooler heads prevailed, etc. Again, very grown up. And there are the fun -nish things we do with words. Hey, talking dirty is an art form! Some people like to be called "whore" but would of balk at the idea of being turned out - and rightly so! That fellow isn't really gonna get a whole football team to do X to his little lady. It's all fantasy. Order me to say, "I love you," and what does that prove? What does it do? I love you like I love tiramisu? I love you like I love all the people in all the world? I love you like I love a glass of water after a hard workout? I love you like I love anti-biotics? All that for this... When you order someone to say something, how does that work? Are you ordering something that you know to already be true, and you just want to hear it? Are you practicing a change in thought patterns based on positive affirmations? Are you wanting to prove you can get them to do something that is against the grain of the person? are you looking for that person to find the grain of truth in your question and polish that grain? (And obviously, from the other side of the kneel, what is going on in your world when you are ordered to do these things? For me, I try to find at least the grain of truth in anything I'm told to say. Yes, I am at times a bad girl. Yes, at times I am a good girl. i can say either one in the same breath, because they are both true at different times, on different days. So what is this ordering someone to say something? Is the response expected to be from the heart or is it a simple domination of another person's grammatical structure and vocabulary... or is it something else entirely? best, sunshine [sm=whisper.gif]

xxblushesxx -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 2:55:24 AM)
As you said, words are very powerful. They can change the way we thing about ourselves or others. I've found forcing others or being forced myself to say something that may have only been a thought, can definitely result in a different way of thinking. Can you force someone to feel they were wrong when they clearly feel they are not? It wouldn't work on me. But I guess it depends on the person.

lilcracker -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 5:03:56 AM)
I can see the ordering of "i love you" as a fun sort of thing. "Tell me you love me and I will let you up." Sort of like, "Say Uncle." However being ordered to say it, just because to me takes away the element of it being 'special'.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 5:12:14 AM)
I understand some of your examples in a "social white lies" setting, but the referring thread and your OP are about intimate situations with D types & s types. If I ask how my hair looks (witch is normally perfect), I want a real answer. I don't want to be placated. The first time samdarella was faced with telling me my hair didn't look right was pretty damn funny. She almost stammered for words, pausing she looking up at me with the same look one might have in a king's court of long ago when begging for mercy . . . she said, "Sir, your hair is less than perfect". I had the shop fix it the next day. On the other hand, I do order her to lie to me about emotions. Not the love emotion, but others. "Oh noes, I am afraid of knives" "Please Sir, I beg of you, don't stick any more needles in me" "Oh my, surely you're not going to . . . etc" I want to buy her a sex watch, you know, so she can look at it like "when is this torture going to be over" when in fact she is loving it. I want her to resist sometimes. I want her to be afraid, but she is an extreme masochist and loves receiving most everything I like giving. I gotta' play with fire to strike real fear into her heart. I usually "close" the role playing and end her lying by saying, "thanks for playing". But in a very real sense, I ask her to lie about her emotions. So that is "how it works" around here. I can imagine if someone needed more romance, not more violence, they might want to hear "I love you" instead of "oh noes, please don't cut me with that sharp knife Sir". (nice OP sunshine)

ARIES83 -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 5:32:01 AM)
[sm=jaw.gif]

sunshinemiss -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 5:37:31 AM)
ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I understand some of your examples in a "social white lies" setting, but the referring thread and your OP are about intimate situations with D types & s types. Yes. I wanted to make a point and counter point. Glad to know it came across that way. If I ask how my hair looks (witch is normally perfect), I want a real answer. I don't want to be placated. The first time samdarella was faced with telling me my hair didn't look right was pretty damn funny. She almost stammered for words, pausing she looking up at me with the same look one might have in a king's court of long ago when begging for mercy . . . she said, "Sir, your hair is less than perfect". I had the shop fix it the next day. That's right. If someone I care for has spinach between their teeth, I'm gonna tell them! Isn't part of the "job description" to be looking out for the other person? to make sure they look their best for the rest of the world? Darned tooting. I'd rather the people I love hear from me that their wig is crooked, their fly is unzipped, or they missed a spot when shaving as opposed to someone else telling them! On the other hand, I do order her to lie to me about emotions. Not the love emotion, but others. "Oh noes, I am afraid of knives" "Please Sir, I beg of you, don't stick any more needles in me" "Oh my, surely you're not going to . . . etc" I want to buy her a sex watch, you know, so she can look at it like "when is this torture going to be over" when in fact she is loving it. I want her to resist sometimes. I want her to be afraid, but she is an extreme masochist and loves receiving most everything I like giving. I gotta' play with fire to strike real fear into her heart. I usually "close" the role playing and end her lying by saying, "thanks for playing". But in a very real sense, I ask her to lie about her emotions. In your examples, it seems like they are 'lies' of the wink wink nudge nudge variety. We all know we are playing, but we continue in that role. It's not an attempt to change samdarella's actual thought patterns or feelings... if I'm reading that correctly. So that is "how it works" around here. I can imagine if someone needed more romance, not more violence, they might want to hear "I love you" instead of "oh noes, please don't cut me with that sharp knife Sir". (nice OP sunshine) Thank you, kindly.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 5:47:10 AM)
xxblushesxx As you said, words are very powerful. They can change the way we thing about ourselves or others. I've found forcing others or being forced myself to say something that may have only been a thought, can definitely result in a different way of thinking. Yes! In the 12 step program, we talk about forgiveness toward those we are angry with. We pray for / ask for that person to receive all the things that we, ourselves, want. I have found that it is tremendously helpful for me to say those kinds of thoughts OUT LOUD because they force the emotions to the surface (more or less). It is how I've learned to let go of anger. I've also had a number of experiences recently - I'm training for a couple of major athletic events (major for me anyway!). When I get to that near-exhausted point, I start feeling some deep-seated emotions and find myself talking out loud to change my way of thinking or feeling. Very powerful stuff! Can you force someone to feel they were wrong when they clearly feel they are not? It wouldn't work on me. But I guess it depends on the person. I will say that one time it had turned into basically bullying and abusive, and I got very quiet and realized the only way out of what was a possibly harmful situation was to lie and agree. We use the tools we have! best, sunshine

searching4mysir -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 6:11:13 AM)
FR When Master wants to change the subject he will say "shut up and kiss me".

evesgrden -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 9:18:01 AM)
If I were to order that certain words or phrases be said, it would be in a wink/wink/nudge/nudge construct. Or perhaps there might be times that I would do it in order to desensitive my submissive about something. It's a good way to get rid of taboos or take the sting out of something (when that's the goal ... yeah right) or to make a problem solvable. Saying words can make something real, and therefore one can move on to fixing it. However, I'm rather familiar with what your saying, and if you (generic) find yourself in a situation where you're being commanded to say something that isn't true, I would say "I can say any words you like: Yes I did it. Alexander the Great was my 3rd son. I'm best friends with Hercules. And I have 3 arms. I can say any words you like. I was in that situation at one point in my life... many many years ago. I made it clear that mimicry is not the same as sincerity. I also found myself saying "are you asking me to compromise my personal ethics, my sense of right and wrong?". The functional answer was "yes", and at that very moment, the writing was on the wall and I could hear the fat lady warming up.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 9:24:03 AM)
I've been thinking about this one, most especially since begging and making me say 'how much I need it, want it, desire it' is a huge part of our sexual dynamic. But forcing me to say I love you is a creep out to me. I say when I want to. Forcing that is like trying to force me to love you, and that will never work.

Dyfrynt -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 9:59:09 AM)
Words have power. I don't think enough people appreciate how much so. Forcing someone to say something they do not believe is not only pointless, it is harmful. Even if they do believe something, forcing them to say it is not productive. I'm not talking about play here. During play the rules are different because the intentions are different. When being serious, it is difficult for me to think of many situations where forcing someone to say something has a beneficial outcome. But then I am not one to expect a certain response. It is far more important to me to have my slave know she can say what she thinks and what she feels as it happens. That makes life far more interesting to me; sometimes the most unexpected responses have been forthcoming. It's not always the easiest route, but it is the one I prefer.

Kana -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 11:40:18 AM)
I think that the only time I order her to say anything is occasionally I make her say Thank you after being tortured. That's pretty much it. Well, that and the old standby TY sir, may I have another. Now, the flip side is that I love to send opposing trains careening into each other in her head. Example-bring her to the dge of orgasms, take her there again and again, then, when she's drooling, shaking,vibrating and flopping and losing her mind to come, say something like, "You can cum if you beg me to skewer your tits.". Then watch the conflict. It's awesome. Watch her fight between need and fear, a desire to please and cringing from pain, her dripping cunt and her frightened head. Best part is that, almost always, the greedy cunt wins, reducing her from a sane woman into a slave cunt ruled by it's sluttiest desires.No longer a person, just a fuck thing that needs to be satiated. Yea.That's good stuff there

NuevaVida -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 11:46:44 AM)
This is a fantastic topic! The Mister orders me to say things from time to time, with various motivations behind it. And I have mixed responses/emotions from it. The first time he ever told me to say something was "I love you" and I hadn't ever told him that yet. We were together, it was a very intimate moment (emotionally along with physically) and he said "Tell me you love me." I think he just really wanted to hear it. It stopped me short. I looked at him and said "I can't say that yet" and he nodded and said "OK" and kissed me. These days if I'm upset about something, I sometimes pull away from him and he will pull me into a bear hug and let me wiggle trying to free myself (it never works) until I finally relent. And he'll say "Tell me you love me" and I glare at him and say "I love you." It changes my head space though, and calms me to remind myself like that, that I love him, and that we're on the same team. Sometimes he'll do that if he feels me emotionally pulling away for any reason. Sometimes I feel really stubborn, and don't want to say it. I need to stay in my emotionally isolated space awhile longer, and I feel too stubborn to relent. I've said "No" to those requests (more in kind of a whine, I must admit) and he'll repeat the command until I say it, sometimes with a newly tightened grip in my hair. Sometimes it's not intense or serious, but he just wants to hear something. Whether I believe it or feel it or agree with it, or whether or not I even want to say it, I say it for him because he wants to hear it. If it's something like telling him I really want to do something sexually (which I don't want to do), I remind myself that I'm not getting brainwashed here, and I don't really want to do this, but I'm giving him the words, because he wants them. It keeps things in check, in my head. He's never forced me to say anything I've been adamantly opposed to (like taking the blame for something I did not do) and I can see myself digging my heels in over something like that. If something really rubs me wrong like that, if my inner voice is screaming at me to not go there, then I won't. And I don't feel like I've failed him in those cases - he's the one who pushed in an area that created the upheaval, that's on him, not me. He knows I will never compromise my spirit again, so requiring me to do so is only going to end badly. Fortunately he's not into trying to make me compromise myself like that, and the very few times we've scathed those boundaries (resulting in a strong emotional response from me), he's pulled back and we've worked on recovering from it together. I'm recalling one time in which he didn't actually want words, but he wanted a smile that I could not pull off. Not even to fake. It triggered a PTSD emotional land mine for me and took us a long time to recover from. Since the goal for both of us is to build and protect the relationship, he does not lead me to disaster zones. We'll get to where he wants to go, in time.

NuevaVida -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 11:49:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt But forcing me to say I love you is a creep out to me. I say when I want to. Forcing that is like trying to force me to love you, and that will never work. That is so interesting to me. He will tell me to say it, as a reminder to myself when I'm annoyed at him. But so many times I'll look at him and smile and say "Do you love me??" I do this when I'm feeling a little insecure or distant, and need to hear it from him. He understands this and usually smiles, kisses my nose, and says, "Yes, baby, I love you." And then all is good again. The "creepy" aspect is something that's never crossed my mind!

littlewonder -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 12:33:44 PM)
Master rarely orders me to do or say anything. He will tell me something but it's not an order. And he doesn't normally like me to say things that I don't feel anything for. For example, if he asked me how he looked in a pair of jeans and I just said "they look nice" and I was lying to appease him, he would be pissed. But if he ordered me to say "thank you Sir" after he hits me and even if I don't want to and don't believe it, he doesn't care. He still expects me to say it just in the way he explained here. Now if he ordered me to say "I love you", it would really hurt me. I would find him insecure. I would find him not caring if the words were true or not and I would find a lack of love from him and wonder if he even loved me at all and was just saying the words himself to appease me. That kind of order would kill me and our relationship. It would be over in a heartbeat for me.

OsideGirl -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 12:35:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana Well, that and the old standby TY sir, may I have another. I hate that! It fucks up my counting! "That's one , Sir. Thank you, Sir. May I have another?"

littlewonder -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 12:39:28 PM)
eerr....that's why he orders it silly!!! [>:]

OsideGirl -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 12:44:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder eerr....that's why he orders it silly!!! [>:] I know...but I always end up getting 3 times the amount because of that damn thing....

littlewonder -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 12:46:01 PM)
you and me both! hrmph. Sooo not fair!

Kana -> RE: Ordering Statements (9/2/2013 1:35:13 PM)
quote: Now if he ordered me to say "I love you", it would really hurt me. I would find him insecure. Beside which, at this juncture of a session, it's always so much more fun to hear how much she hates me [8D]

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