quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I have never , for the life of me, understood this need to emotionally blackmail a partner by saying "I love you" and - on some level - demanding that they say it back. I just don't get that. It's much better to know the truth of how someone feels, I think.



Karl Jung[/color]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I think that the only time I order her to say anything is occasionally I make her say Thank you after being tortured.
That's pretty much it. Well, that and the old standby TY sir, may I have another.

Now, the flip side is that I love to send opposing trains careening into each other in her head. Example-bring her to the dge of orgasms, take her there again and again, then, when she's drooling, shaking,vibrating and flopping and losing her mind to come, say something like, "You can cum if you beg me to skewer your tits.".

Then watch the conflict.
It's awesome. Watch her fight between need and fear, a desire to please and cringing from pain, her dripping cunt and her frightened head.
Best part is that, almost always, the greedy cunt wins, reducing her from a sane woman into a slave cunt ruled by it's sluttiest desires.No longer a person, just a fuck thing that needs to be satiated.
Yea.That's good stuff there

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm going to get crushed. But, what else is new?

I'm gathering that we're leaving play time out of the equation. That works great for me.

I have always believed that if a lady has truly submitted to me, I don't need to order her to do anything. I have had far too many successful relationships where all I did was to make my wishes known and my "orders" were given.

Now, we're talking about emotions, in the OP and I can tell you that there's an old saw that I truly believe that goes: "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not". Projecting that onto other people means that I'd much rather know what they really think of me than to be mis-lead or be under some false impression.

I have never , for the life of me, understood this need to emotionally blackmail a partner by saying "I love you" and - on some level - demanding that they say it back. I just don't get that. It's much better to know the truth of how someone feels, I think.



Peace,



Karl Jung

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

If I were to order that certain words or phrases be said, it would be in a wink/wink/nudge/nudge construct. Or perhaps there might be times that I would do it in order to desensitive my submissive about something. It's a good way to get rid of taboos or take the sting out of something (when that's the goal ... yeah right) or to make a problem solvable. Saying words can make something real, and therefore one can move on to fixing it.


This is one of the things that I'm thinking about - desensitizing, ridding one of taboos, etc. How does that work? (I'm such a geek that I'm thinking about neural pathways as well as "ask the universe" )

I was in that situation at one point in my life... many many years ago. I made it clear that mimicry is not the same as sincerity. I also found myself saying "are you asking me to compromise my personal ethics, my sense of right and wrong?".

The functional answer was "yes", and at that very moment, the writing was on the wall and I could hear the fat lady warming up.

Yes. That happened to me as well. I get a whiff of Stockholm in that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

One of the things that I'm not seeing which is one of the things rattling around in the space my brain belongs is the idea of changing someone's way of thinking... not just change focus - like NV's example of saying, "I love you" to get her out of an irritating head space. I'm looking at the way words are being used to change a mindset as well. Positive affirmations and all that. *I'm hoping Jeff or one of the other folks who work on that kind of thing will pop in at some point*

quote:


There are lots of folks who, over time, I've seen say things about how a dominant has changed the way their submissive interacted with others - no more allowing someone to take advantage of their sub for example or not allowing their submissive to say negative things about their body or something like that. That kind of process is also what I'm thinking about with this question. How to use words, ordering something be spoken to change a mindset. Is it one of many tools? Is it the most important tool? Is it even part of the process? How does the words in your head change your mindset, do you say them out loud? What is the intention?

quote:

Then watch the conflict.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot

Words. I used to love words. I caught a big fish with words.
I lost everything that meant anything to me, besides my girls, because of words.
Now I find that I don't use words much. I'm much quieter than I've ever been in my life.
I also don't believe any words from anyone except my girls.
Its easier that way. Less heartache.

The thought of words used in a bdsm context makes me sad.
I remember the effect of seeing a list left for me.
I remember how I felt hearing "good girl".
Words have made me jaded. They were my downfall and continue to be a source of broken promises.

Alone and quiet is better for me.
The less words the better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespot

Words. I used to love words. I caught a big fish with words.
I lost everything that meant anything to me, besides my girls, because of words.
Now I find that I don't use words much. I'm much quieter than I've ever been in my life.
I also don't believe any words from anyone except my girls.
Its easier that way. Less heartache.

The thought of words used in a bdsm context makes me sad.
I remember the effect of seeing a list left for me.
I remember how I felt hearing "good girl".
Words have made me jaded. They were my downfall and continue to be a source of broken promises.

Alone and quiet is better for me.
The less words the better.

quote:

ok, there is one big one but we will never, ever see eye to eye on that

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ok, there is one big one but we will never, ever see eye to eye on that

I keep telling you you'll look terrific bald, with your skull tattooed,bound in leather, latex,gags, slews of rings and weights, looking 100,000% House of Gord.
Sigh.
One day you'll believe me

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm going to get crushed. But, what else is new?

I'm gathering that we're leaving play time out of the equation. That works great for me.

I have always believed that if a lady has truly submitted to me, I don't need to order her to do anything. I have had far too many successful relationships where all I did was to make my wishes known and my "orders" were given.

Now, we're talking about emotions, in the OP and I can tell you that there's an old saw that I truly believe that goes: "I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not". Projecting that onto other people means that I'd much rather know what they really think of me than to be mis-lead or be under some false impression.

I have never , for the life of me, understood this need to emotionally blackmail a partner by saying "I love you" and - on some level - demanding that they say it back. I just don't get that. It's much better to know the truth of how someone feels, I think.



Peace,



Karl Jung

It seems that a lot of folks are saying the same as what you've said - I could be misreading, but it seems that RS and the other gentlemen have pretty much said something similar.

And there seems to be some agreement around actual feelings and mimicry versus sincere expression.

****
FR (although there's nothing fast about my thinking about this topic!)

One of the things that I'm not seeing which is one of the things rattling around in the space my brain belongs is the idea of changing someone's way of thinking... not just change focus - like NV's example of saying, "I love you" to get her out of an irritating head space. I'm looking at the way words are being used to change a mindset as well. Positive affirmations and all that. *I'm hoping Jeff or one of the other folks who work on that kind of thing will pop in at some point*

There are lots of folks who, over time, I've seen say things about how a dominant has changed the way their submissive interacted with others - no more allowing someone to take advantage of their sub for example or not allowing their submissive to say negative things about their body or something like that. That kind of process is also what I'm thinking about with this question. How to use words, ordering something be spoken to change a mindset. Is it one of many tools? Is it the most important tool? Is it even part of the process? How does the words in your head change your mindset, do you say them out loud? What is the intention?

I'm not really sure where I'm going with all this, nor am I sure what I'm asking exactly, but it's certainly an interesting concept (to me).

One of the things that recently came up with all of this in my actual world is the use of dark humor to handle tragedy. I embrace dark humor as much as I embrace soul-wrenching sobs. They are two sides of the same coin from how I experience them. I know of an order to not actually use the dark humor... because the effect words have.

Anyway, still mulling.

best,
sunshine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

Now if he ordered me to say "I love you", it would really hurt me. I would find him insecure.

Beside which, at this juncture of a session, it's always so much more fun to hear how much she hates me [8D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Is the response expected to be from the heart or is it a simple domination of another person's grammatical structure and vocabulary... or is it something else entirely?