RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread...

RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:17:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Chicago has unfortunately a number of people being killed and injured by firearms in a given month. An it is noted the city has some of the strictest gun laws on the books. This raises the classic question of correlation vs. causation. People who are undergoing chemotherapy are far more likely to have cancer than those who are not. Does that mean chemo causes cancer? People who have cancer are more likely to have chemo than those who don't taking away peoples rights is the cancer After all the CC laws and the ever more intrusion of that into every arena in public; to public parks, to national forests, to a bar, on the bus or rail transport, etc., has clearly taken away people's right to go anywhere outside of their house with out fear of being among a crowd of people toting guns in their presence at all times. But then any feeling of safety, security, and proactive protection from this sort never seems to enter the discussion when it comes to 'freedom.' *Indeed, taking away people's right to be able to step out of their homes with out instantly having to confront this madness foisted upon them and their children is the cancer.* Actually your logic is rather bizarre, the failure to restrict rights is an infringement of rights? This is exactly the view that I was talking about earlier. It ranks up there with the person who once told me that freedom flows from regulation.

Edwynn -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:20:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Funny thing, Edwynn. I spent last weekend camping in the redwoods, and not once did my gun load itself and wander out of the tent to murder any of the other campers nearby. Neither did the guns in the tents of the dear old friends we were camping with. A very much NOT funny thing, re national parks and gun carry; http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-09/news/sns-rt-us-usa-yellowstone-childdeath-20130907_1_yellowstone-national-park-yellowstone-lake-park-spokesman-al-nash SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) - The first child to die from gunfire in Yellowstone National Park in three-quarters of a century was a 3-year-old girl killed over the weekend by a bullet shot from her father's handgun at a popular lakeside campsite, park officials said on Sunday. Little information was released by authorities about the toddler's death since her mother called emergency dispatchers on Saturday to report that her daughter had shot herself at the Grant Village campground on the shores of Yellowstone Lake. Emergency personnel were unable to resuscitate the child, whose name was being withheld until Monday at the request of the family, who are from Idaho, park spokesman Al Nash said. The death comes three years after enactment of a federal law that lifted a decades-old ban on the possession of firearms by visitors to most national parks, including Yellowstone. It marks the first fatal shooting in Yellowstone since 1978, and the first shooting death of a child in the park since 1938, when the 13-year-old son of the park's master mechanic accidentally shot himself in the head with a rifle, Nash said. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The tragedy is that her inadvertent pointing happened to fall to herself and not at her obviously inept father or mother. In any case a Darwinistic element could be invoked here, but her pointed meanderings could have struck someone outside the family, including another child. Only someone like you could derive some feeling of 'safety' or 'freedom' out of that idiotic law passed three years ago. That law was passed when the girl was born, three years ago. Boy, that particular law was all on top of "thinking about our children's future," wasn't it?

BamaD -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:25:48 PM)
Jump to a conclusion with no details, how open minded of you.

Edwynn -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:35:15 PM)
The details are that there hadn't been a murder in Yellowstone for 35 years prior to the idiotic enactment of the the insanity of the law that allowed guns into Yellowstone. This ain't Chicago, so good luck with the crime reduction crapology in the first place. The fact is that the three year old could have inadvertently pointed her imbecile father's gun anywhere in this crowded campground. The fact that this isn't enough 'detail' for you explains a lot.

TheHeretic -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:41:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is the first I have heard of it. Some local coverage http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Two-Million-Bikers-Roar-Into-DC-for-911-223271211.html Traffic monitoring sytems around the city would make it pretty easy to identify and total the number of groups riding in, if that data was made available. The 2 million number visible in the link was a goal set by the organizers - 880,000 is the highest estimate I've seen of what showed up. "Thousands" is the preferred verbiage in mainstream news coverage.

TheHeretic -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:45:29 PM)
Got a number on bear attacks, Edwynn?

thansen669 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:49:52 PM)
I've never understood this insanity! How can a person argue that if more good law abiding people carry firearms to protect themselves and their loved ones, that there will be an increase in gun violence? Is there a evil demon inside the gun that makes the person who carries it go insane and turn homicidal? This is what is commonly called magical thinking. If you believe that we are safer with armed criminals and disarmed civilians, then surely you believe that gazelle are safer from lions if they have broken legs. Are children in schools safer from lunatic spree killers if teachers aren't allowed to protect them? If that's true then we should immediately take all the guns away from cops, because their ability to threaten or shoot dangerous people makes us less safe. Answer even one of these questions without changing the subject or obfuscating the topic, and you get a cookie.

Edwynn -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:54:24 PM)
Excellent logic, there. The stats on killing by guns are less than killings by bears means that we really need to up the ante on letting gun toting imbeciles entering the park and letting their three year old kids lose with these guns, just up to the point of the resulting deaths being from human/human by guns just below the deaths by bears. You got me there.

TheHeretic -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:57:36 PM)
No. You got yourself when you clicked "ok" on such an idiotic contribution. BTW, I was in a State park, and in compliance with both park regulations, and the state laws related to how my firearm was transported.

Kirata -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:58:52 PM)
Yes, individual freedoms are a "cancer" that burdens everyone in a society, including even those who insist on them. In fact, this unfortunate inability of "freedom loving" peoples to know what's good for them is a problem that has vexed many a great mind, and apparently you are one of them. Congratulations. When do you plan to leave? K.

thansen669 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 9:59:31 PM)
Logic had little to do with the thing you just trying to say there. Your belief is that because more people are killed by bears that firearms, (which is not true, far more people are killed by firearms) that people who own firearms should give their weapons to their children who will then enter national parks and accidentally shoot themselves? Is that correct?

BamaD -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:01:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Excellent logic, there. The stats on killing by guns are less than killings by bears means that we really need to up the ante on letting gun toting imbeciles entering the park and letting their three year old kids lose with these guns, just up to the point of the resulting deaths being from human/human by guns just below the deaths by bears. You got me there. Clearly we first need to ban bears from the park. Especially that one that keeps stealing picanic baskets.

BamaD -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:03:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thansen669 Logic had little to do with the thing you just trying to say there. Your belief is that because more people are killed by bears that firearms, (which is not true, far more people are killed by firearms) that people who own firearms should give their weapons to their children who will then enter national parks and accidentally shoot themselves? Is that correct? The bear to firearm ratio he was talking about was in the parks.

thansen669 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:06:21 PM)
Um...what bear to firearm ratio specifically?

TheHeretic -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:09:05 PM)
Welcome aboard, Thansen. If you were replying to me, then my post was read differently than intended. Edwynn pulled in something to make an emotional appeal, I responded specifically to that attempt. Down in the lower right of the posts, you'll see an "in reply to," that is activated when using the reply/quote buttons on the particular post you wish to respond to. Using the fast reply box at he bottom of the page will indicate a response to the last post on the thread, as of the time you ok it. Typing FR at the top of posts initiated there will help remove confusion. Again, welcome to the forum. [:)]

TheHeretic -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:14:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Clearly we first need to ban bears from the park. Especially that one that keeps stealing picanic baskets. We had raccoons open up a cooler and try to steal our eggs, but flashlights and noise were enough to handle the situation. Bold little fuckers.

thansen669 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:18:23 PM)
How often does this happen compared to how often a criminal uses an illegal to kill someone?

lovmuffin -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:21:56 PM)
This reminds of a story Jeff Cooper once wrote about. Ya don't need a handgun at all to fend off bear attacks in national parks particularly in Yosemite National Park where at the time seemed to be a more than normal number of bear attacks. From the park service; "We advise outdoorsmen to wear noisy little bells on their clothing so that the bears are not startled unexpectedly by a human's presence. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch for fresh signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear poop and grizzly bear poop. Black bear poop is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear poop smells like pepper and has little bells in it."

Edwynn -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:23:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Yes, individual freedoms are a "cancer" that burdens everyone in a society, including even those who insist on them. In fact, this unfortunate inability of "freedom loving" peoples to know what's good for them is a problem that has vexed many a great mind, and apparently you are one of them. Congratulations. When do you plan to leave? K. Sorry, but your or anybody else's pointing a 45 at me (legally or not) doesn't tell me anymore about what 'freedom' is than any any government or philosopher does. Thanks for the Nietscheian input, though.

LadyPact -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/11/2013 10:25:55 PM)
So now it's anti-guns and bears? Cool. I'll make an offer. For any person on this thread who considers themselves anti-gun, I'd like to invite you (at your own cost, of course) to fly here to the great state of Alaska. I agree to pick you up at the Fairbanks Airport, drive you the hundred miles to My home, have you as My guest for dinner, and provide you overnight accommodations. The next morning, I will drive you twenty miles west of My home so that you can camp for a week. After which, if you are still walking and breathing, I will sit and listen to how glad you were that you didn't have a gun.

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