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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 3:45:02 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering what the navy has said about his service record, how did he get an honorable discharge?

As for his criminal record, he had no felony convictions which means he was a fine upstanding citizen.

I still want to know how he passed two security checkpoints with the weapons. I mean granted 90% of the navy plays with and on boats so they really dont have much to worry about except some other asshole with a plane, boat or missile but if they cant keep one nut job out of one of their bases with guns, put the marines in charge of security.


There is the National Disabilities Act as well as HIPPI. In both you can not discriminate against someone who has a disability, mental illness included. Further unless a wavier is signed medical records are confidential. So even the marines would not know.


I am referring to the fact that he managed to get 3 weapons, one of them a shotgun, past two security check points. Sorry but a shotgun kinda sticks out and is noticeable.

I understand he took the handguns off of security people in the building, but you are obviously right about the shotgun.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 3:45:50 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

So we have yet another mass killing of helpless people in a gun-free zone,

GUN FREE ZONE! When will stop making shit up!

A gun-free zone, that's right. Lowercase. As in a location where for whatever reason the carrying of firearms is forbidden.

Let's not go through the Gun Free School Zones Act again. That rabbit ain't in the hat anymore.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/17/2013 4:16:04 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 3:53:48 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well he shows his valid ID at the gate and is waved through, just like the other several thousand people that morning. He the drives right up to the front door, parks his car, gets the shotgun out of the trunk. And since he is right by the front door, quickly opens fire on the first armed individual he sees and takes their weapon. Its not very far fetched really. And the alternative is to thouroghly check every single vehicle, which is pretty impractical.




< Message edited by KYsissy -- 9/17/2013 3:56:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:01:15 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

And they wouldn't have to have their weapons with them at all times. How hard is it to decentralize storage and have them near their work stations? Put a gunsafe in the CO's or chief NCO's office and you maintain control.

Weapons are kept locked in the armory and under the supervision of of an officer and a staff nco...Is it possible that there is a reason for this?

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:01:26 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The point that escapes you is the difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed.

Yet he shot an armed cop and took his weapon.

The difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed arises from the fact that once you start shooting at them they know what you're up to. Kinda gives it away, yanno? The cop didn't have a clue.

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:02:21 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

if they cant keep one nut job out of one of their bases with guns, put the marines in charge of security.

They used to but the sailors got their underware in a bunch and thought they could do just as well as real marines.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:03:01 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The point that escapes you is the difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed.

Yet he shot an armed cop and took his weapon.

The difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed arises from the fact that once you start shooting at them they know what you're up to. Kinda gives it away, yanno? The cop didn't have a clue.

K.


I suspect many of the victims didnt have a clue. Whats your point ?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:03:22 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		you kidding I once had my clearances pulled for getting marriage counseling.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:06:45 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The point that escapes you is the difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed.

Yet he shot an armed cop and took his weapon.

The difficulty of continuing an extended mass killing spree when your victims are armed arises from the fact that once you start shooting at them they know what you're up to. Kinda gives it away, yanno? The cop didn't have a clue.

I suspect many of the victims didnt have a clue. Whats your point ?

Really? You don't think they knew someone was shooting at them and that their co-workers were being hit? Well that's an interesting conjecture. What do you think they thought was happening? Why do you think they fled? Just got an urge for some exercise?

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:10:23 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He had the shotgun in his car when he came through the gate. He shot the guard at the building checkpoint and took his weapons, the handgun and the rifle.

What rifle?

I think the confusion comes from the fact that Piers Morgan announced that the shooter used a ar-15 shotgun.
Of course, Morgan makes Kendom look like John Browning, but some on the left have to have that ar15 in the mix.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:11:49 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, they have already implemented the ACA then. Because they will slip through. Unless a doctor will violate the law as his contribution to; and protection of, society at large, and the patient.

I don't know about medical doctors, but psychotherapists have a duty to warn. The privilege of confidentiality ends where public peril begins.

K.

Only if the patient makes a threatening statement. And that we don't know if he did.





They cannot ask them if they own weapons. Who would they warn? Unless the guy comes right out and says, I am killing me some motherfuckers, it would be an invasion of privacy to say to law enforcement....well, I dunno, he might be nuts, in my professional opinion.

Other doctors ask about weapons ownership

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:15:29 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

if they cant keep one nut job out of one of their bases with guns, put the marines in charge of security.

They used to but the sailors got their underware in a bunch and thought they could do just as well as real marines.



Oh, jesus, what's the point? In situations where these things have happened, people are so far away from expecting it that the damage is already done before anybody can do anything, whether or not there are 'good guys with guns' around. Children in a school, cinema-goers getting ready to immerse themselves in a film, military personnel who are back at base in their home territory, behind gates with armed guards . . . . I mean, really, where will it end? Should even a priest be armed as he stands in his pulpit on a Sunday morning, in case one of his congregation draws his piece?


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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:32:24 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Really? You don't think they knew someone was shooting at them and that their co-workers were being hit? Well that's an interesting conjecture. What do you think they thought was happening? Why do you think they fled? Just got an urge for some exercise?

K.[/font][/size]



Hey brains, twas but you who suggested people didnt have a clue they were being shot at, not I, or are you suggesting only those you wished to have a clue, actually had one ?

The cop didn't have a clue.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:43:08 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Should even a priest be armed as he stands in his pulpit on a Sunday morning, in case one of his congregation draws his piece?


To paraphrase the bard..."first we kill all the priest"

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:50:37 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Really? You don't think they knew someone was shooting at them and that their co-workers were being hit? Well that's an interesting conjecture. What do you think they thought was happening? Why do you think they fled? Just got an urge for some exercise?
K.[/font][/size]

Hey brains, twas but you who suggested people didnt have a clue they were being shot at, not I, or are you suggesting only those you wished to have a clue, actually had one ?
The cop didn't have a clue.


The cop was the first one shot. He didn't have a clue what was about to happen. After he first shots, it's likely the much of the area was aware of the shots. Hearing shots ring out where they aren't supposed to be is a damn good clue to take action, be that arm yourself and take a defensive position, or run like Sir Robin (that would be me).


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:51:56 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

if they cant keep one nut job out of one of their bases with guns, put the marines in charge of security.

They used to but the sailors got their underware in a bunch and thought they could do just as well as real marines.



Oh, jesus, what's the point? In situations where these things have happened, people are so far away from expecting it that the damage is already done before anybody can do anything, whether or not there are 'good guys with guns' around. Children in a school, cinema-goers getting ready to immerse themselves in a film, military personnel who are back at base in their home territory, behind gates with armed guards . . . . I mean, really, where will it end? Should even a priest be armed as he stands in his pulpit on a Sunday morning, in case one of his congregation draws his piece?



ah fuck 'em peon, they're not going to change.

If the dozens of threads with thousands of posts about guns has taught me anything it's that Americans have absolutely no concept of what a life without guns is like.

America has travelled too far down the "guns for everyone" route for any change to be remotely plausible. Lets face it, when their governments reaction to pretty much any crisis is to invade, blow up and kill is it a surprise that the general population feel totally happy to arm themselves to the hilt and shoot at a moments notice?

The road to disarmament is just too damn complicated and scary for your average American so let them have their guns, let them keep killing each other and just be happy that when you go out for a drink or a meal you know that the chance of being killed is infinitesimal.

Freedom, it's great

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:53:06 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey brains, twas but you who suggested people didnt have a clue they were being shot at...

The cop didn't have a clue.

Are you able to see any difference between "the cop" and "people," or do I have to explain it to you?

Just askin, yanno. I don't want to appear to be misjuding your abilities.

K.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 4:58:37 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

The cop was the first one shot. He didn't have a clue what was about to happen. After he first shots, it's likely the much of the area was aware of the shots. Hearing shots ring out where they aren't supposed to be is a damn good clue to take action, be that arm yourself and take a defensive position, or run like Sir Robin (that would be me).



Agreed, but many of those involved yesterday said that when the shooting started there was panic and confusion. Under such circumstances it is impossible to be certain more people shooting would have solved the situation (and I am not suggesting thats what you are saying)

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:00:03 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey brains, twas but you who suggested people didnt have a clue they were being shot at...

The cop didn't have a clue.

Are you able to see any difference between "the cop" and "people," or do I have to explain it to you?

Just askin, yanno. I don't want to appear to be misjuding your abilities.

K.


Are you really suggesting that after the cop was shot, everyone had a clear picture as to what was going on ?

Just askin etc etc.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:08:44 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The cop was the first one shot. He didn't have a clue what was about to happen. After he first shots, it's likely the much of the area was aware of the shots. Hearing shots ring out where they aren't supposed to be is a damn good clue to take action, be that arm yourself and take a defensive position, or run like Sir Robin (that would be me).

Agreed, but many of those involved yesterday said that when the shooting started there was panic and confusion. Under such circumstances it is impossible to be certain more people shooting would have solved the situation (and I am not suggesting thats what you are saying)


There was panic and confusion because having a shooter isn't typical. It's not even something that most would consider. I'm willing to bet, though, that if more trained people were armed there, the situation would have been defused sooner and with a lower body count. In most situations where you know someone else has a gun and isn't on your "team," that's the first person you take out. Makes your life a lot easier. If there are several armed people, it's quite a bit more difficult to go on a rampage for any extended amount of time. Trained people will regain composure quickly (or at least relatively quickly) and then they'll be much more difficult to take out and will pose a greater danger to the shooter.

I would find it highly unlikely that there would have been some Hollywood Rambo shootout if trained people were armed. Arm the sailors but have a much higher standard for civilians. At least to some degree, the sailors are trained for combat.

After the initial shock of being under attack, armed and trained personnel would have been able to end the situation, saving lives, imo.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 120
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