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RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:11:49 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		DS, again I agree, but the general public, with maybe some time on the range, isnt the same as trained personnel.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:21:26 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		No doubts about that, Polite. We are talking about a Naval Installation, though. Odds are that there will be some sailors there.

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:22:50 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

No doubts about that, Polite. We are talking about a Naval Installation, though. Odds are that there will be some sailors there.


Yes, but what about trained personnel?

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 5:25:29 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I suspect many of the victims didnt have a clue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hey brains, twas but you who suggested people didnt have a clue

Confusing, isn't it. Are you letting someone else use your account? Well anyway, now that you're back to they didn't have a clue, let's go with that before it changes again.

What I am suggesting (follow me closely here) is that when people hear gunshots and see others falling around them, they are unlikely to have much difficulty figuring out that they're being fired upon. I'm not sure why you dispute this, unless perhaps you wouldn't. But I hope that if such a thing ever happens to you, you'll remember this little exchange and hit on the notion.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/17/2013 5:27:31 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 6:16:06 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

No doubts about that, Polite. We are talking about a Naval Installation, though. Odds are that there will be some sailors there.

Yes, but what about trained personnel?

Heh. My thought exactly. Methinks Polite is a sucker for a uniform.

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 6:28:04 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

No doubts about that, Polite. We are talking about a Naval Installation, though. Odds are that there will be some sailors there.

Yes, but what about trained personnel?

Heh. My thought exactly. Methinks Polite is a sucker for a uniform.

K.


All kidding aside, the navy are very thorough in their security procedures, and they are well trained, even if they have men and women wanting to play on boats that are designed to sink (and you people call me crazy.)

So the question about trained personnel is almost an insult. It would be like asking a British sailor if Drake knew how to sail a ship.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 6:34:49 PM   
Lucylastic


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(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 6:35:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

So the question about trained personnel is almost an insult. It would be like asking a British sailor if Drake knew how to sail a ship.


No doubt.

Re that: I once asked an ex-British navy man if personnel would be armed when in port and on duty. He said no, apart from guards at entrances (of ship or naval base). But there's no real comparison with the US situation because it's so unlikely that anyone would break in with a firearm.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 7:04:52 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

So we have yet another mass killing of helpless people in a gun-free zone,

GUN FREE ZONE! When will stop making shit up!

A gun-free zone, that's right. Lowercase. As in a location where for whatever reason the carrying of firearms is forbidden.

Let's not go through the Gun Free School Zones Act again. That rabbit ain't in the hat anymore.

K.


Then where did he get the 2 handguns? Did the gun fairy appear and give them to him?

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 7:06:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He had the shotgun in his car when he came through the gate. He shot the guard at the building checkpoint and took his weapons, the handgun and the rifle.

What rifle?

I think the confusion comes from the fact that Piers Morgan announced that the shooter used a ar-15 shotgun.
Of course, Morgan makes Kendom look like John Browning, but some on the left have to have that ar15 in the mix.

The initial police reports said a shotgun, a pistol and an AR-15 rifle were recovered.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 7:25:34 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Something struck me about the news media and this incident, if I may.

CNN took both their morning shows from New York to the Navy Yard, which seemed a bit unnecessary, if not ghoulish. It is if the news media are using these incidents to score points and will not be happy until they get there early enough to televise the bodies, or even the very act of the mass shooting.



_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 7:27:04 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
All kidding aside, the navy are very thorough in their security procedures, and they are well trained, even if they have men and women wanting to play on boats that are designed to sink (and you people call me crazy.)

So the question about trained personnel is almost an insult. It would be like asking a British sailor if Drake knew how to sail a ship.

Sailors do not generally walk around armed. During my time I was routinely armed only when serving as Petty Officer of the Watch on my ships quarterdeck in port. Ships had internal security forces that trained with M-16's, M-14 sniper rifles and shotguns and ships with nuclear weapons had Marines. Guards at gates and at security buildings were armed as well and were generally drawn from the Master at Arms ratings, the Navy's version of a police force.

Although word is that a lot of guard duty has been offloaded to contractors.

However no secure building would ever be called a "gun free zone" there would be armed guards at every entrance.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 7:46:52 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		HIPAA is federal law that prohibits all health care professionals from revealing anyone's information without permission.
The exception would be a clear and imminent threat, in which case there is a duty to inform the authorities.

Saying 'I hear voices' in therapy doesn't trigger the exception.

So far, none of the fingers that the media is pointing seem to match up to reality.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, they have already implemented the ACA then. Because they will slip through. Unless a doctor will violate the law as his contribution to; and protection of, society at large, and the patient.

I don't know about medical doctors, but psychotherapists have a duty to warn. The privilege of confidentiality ends where public peril begins.

K.





(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 10:59:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

So we have yet another mass killing of helpless people in a gun-free zone,

GUN FREE ZONE! When will stop making shit up!

A gun-free zone, that's right. Lowercase. As in a location where for whatever reason the carrying of firearms is forbidden.

Let's not go through the Gun Free School Zones Act again. That rabbit ain't in the hat anymore.

K.


Then where did he get the 2 handguns? Did the gun fairy appear and give them to him?

He took them off of dead security guards

_____________________________

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:01:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He had the shotgun in his car when he came through the gate. He shot the guard at the building checkpoint and took his weapons, the handgun and the rifle.

What rifle?

I think the confusion comes from the fact that Piers Morgan announced that the shooter used a ar-15 shotgun.
Of course, Morgan makes Kendom look like John Browning, but some on the left have to have that ar15 in the mix.

The initial police reports said a shotgun, a pistol and an AR-15 rifle were recovered.


Ken you do know that I was in no way insulting you don't you.
There is still no suck thing as a ar 15 shotgun.
D C cops, not a lot better than Morgan

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:03:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

HIPAA is federal law that prohibits all health care professionals from revealing anyone's information without permission.
The exception would be a clear and imminent threat, in which case there is a duty to inform the authorities.

Saying 'I hear voices' in therapy doesn't trigger the exception.

So far, none of the fingers that the media is pointing seem to match up to reality.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, they have already implemented the ACA then. Because they will slip through. Unless a doctor will violate the law as his contribution to; and protection of, society at large, and the patient.

I don't know about medical doctors, but psychotherapists have a duty to warn. The privilege of confidentiality ends where public peril begins.

K.






So the problem is HIPAA not the background checks?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:23:32 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is still no suck thing as a ar 15 shotgun.

Perhaps not, but the Akdal Arms MKA 1919 and Safir Arms T-14 sure do look an awful lot like AR-15s.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:32:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

So we have yet another mass killing of helpless people in a gun-free zone,

GUN FREE ZONE! When will stop making shit up!

A gun-free zone, that's right. Lowercase. As in a location where for whatever reason the carrying of firearms is forbidden.

Let's not go through the Gun Free School Zones Act again. That rabbit ain't in the hat anymore.

K.


Then where did he get the 2 handguns? Did the gun fairy appear and give them to him?

He took them off of dead security guards

My point. How could it have been a gun free zone if there were two armed guards that he shot and took those guns from.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:34:38 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He had the shotgun in his car when he came through the gate. He shot the guard at the building checkpoint and took his weapons, the handgun and the rifle.

What rifle?

I think the confusion comes from the fact that Piers Morgan announced that the shooter used a ar-15 shotgun.
Of course, Morgan makes Kendom look like John Browning, but some on the left have to have that ar15 in the mix.

The initial police reports said a shotgun, a pistol and an AR-15 rifle were recovered.


Ken you do know that I was in no way insulting you don't you.
There is still no suck thing as a ar 15 shotgun.
D C cops, not a lot better than Morgan

I didn't think you were. I was clarifying that I got that info from sources that were not Piers Morgan and actually was many hours before his show which I did not watch.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: US Navy Shootings. - 9/17/2013 11:36:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

There is still no suck thing as a ar 15 shotgun.

Perhaps not, but the Akdal Arms MKA 1919 and Safir Arms T-14 sure do look an awful lot like AR-15s.

I had never seen either of those but without something to scale the bore on those I'd call them AR-15's.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 140
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