Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 6:00:17 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		A masochist is someone who likes pain.

A submissive is someone who wants to serve.

Note that a masochist is defined only during play, and a submissive is defined outside of it.

As far as masochism being created by early childhood abuse and being accompanied with shame - I don't know about that.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 6:32:00 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
As far as masochism being created by early childhood abuse and being accompanied with shame - I don't know about that.



I know some people who were abused as children. I would suggest not trying to dominate them unless you like to RUN.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 7:18:54 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I find a deep tissue massage to be one of the most excruciating things on the face of planet. Other people find them deeply enjoyable.


Not only do I adore deep tissue massage (just got back from one - I like it so hard I have to "breathe into it" and am a little sore the next day) but I also liked rolfing and wouldn't mind getting a second series done as it's been about 12 years since the last one.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 7:42:05 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		What is rolfing? I have to look high and wide for new fetishes, you know.

I think the OP has been really open about accepting another point of view, I do believe he wants to learn.

I am very submissive, and very masochistic. They do not necessarily come as a pair, although in me, my masochism only works in conjecture with my submission. I like a lot of pain, but only from someone I'm deeply committed to serving. That's what it takes, for me, to process pain as pleasure. So much so that I have to white knuckle through the first couple play sessions in a new relationship, till the love kicks in.

I was abused as a child. I don't know if it is instrumental in me being either submissive or maso, but I know that I am a quilt, made up of all the pieces, both good and bad, of my past, and I love the way I turned out. So rather it was a factor or not, I'm fine with it.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 7:45:39 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The relationship you're imagining between masochism and abuse is coincidental. 1 in 4 women have been abused. I don't know what the rates of masochism are. Lets pick ten percent. That means that 25 of 100 masochistic women will have been abused.

But that's coincidence, not causal.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 8:09:57 PM   
zerogirl


Posts: 28
Joined: 9/15/2013
Status: offline 		I've known masochists before that would scoff at the idea of submitting themselves to someone so I don't think it's always the case of them going together, just that they sometimes do. I'm a masochist but I think I'm more submissive than masochistic, if my Master decided one day decided to just stop with all play, spankings, etc... I could live even though I'd always be a little disappointed. I would be much more broken up if He told me I could no longer serve Him.

As for the whole sexual abuse leading to masochism, I think that's just a stereotype that needs to end. Usually though I only hear it in vanilla folks. I had not one but two exes (vanilla) look at me like a beaten down puppy when I revealed my masochistic (and submissive) desires and then question me about how I must have been abused as a child. Which I never was for the record. One even told me I was probably just too young to remember when it happened.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 8:23:50 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		abuse which happens when someone is too young to remember does leave psychiatric symptoms behind, to be sure. but who tries to tell a person they've been abused, when they are saying they haven't? That's just crazy. It's like trying to tell someone that they are wrong about their ethnic heritage, and tell them what you think it is, based on hair color or something. I find the whole idea rude, insensitive and intrusive, not to mention that it is pure prejudice and stereotyping.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to zerogirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 8:24:37 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist.

I've definitely dated dominant bottoms -- and these were women who proudly self-identified as dominant bottoms. Not me passive aggressively labeling them as such after the fact.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 8:28:14 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am a masochist and a submissive. Masochism did begin early on with abuse. Submission was ingrained from well before that. I have absolutely NO guilt or shame for things which were forced upon me before I was able to speak up. And I mean thast not just as an adult, but as the younger being who endured those things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75

I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist. I think the Masochist is ussualy the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame. I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level. It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 10:30:04 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		~FR~

I've always been submissive - it's just the way I am.

I'm also a masochist, although I didn't find this out until about 10 years ago when I first started to explore bdsm. I mostly hate light, gentle touches - they make my skin crawl. I used to have a vanilla boyfriend who loved to stroke my body during lovemaking, and he adored giving oral sex. I used to avoid sex because the whole experience made me want to scream and run away.

I love firm grips, beatings and strong, intense feelings. That is nothing to do with childhood sexual abuse and all to do with the way my brain processes touch and sensation. Telling me that I was probably a victim of sexual abuse is likely to turn you into a victim of physical abuse ... from me.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/26/2013 11:24:14 PM   
SoulAlloy


Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline 		Masochist here too - love it :)

I actually drop harder from having my submissive buttons pushed than I do from being masochistic, where I get those feelings of insecurity and self doubt, and perhaps a little shame.

Abused? Not that I know of, and I certainly doubt it.

_____________________________

"Better to be a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without" - Confucius

"It'll be alright in the end - if it isn't alright, it's not the end." - unknown

Kinky crossdressing Whovian

Host of the Preston (UK) Munch, 2nd Wednesday each month

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 4:28:21 AM   
slavekate80


Posts: 362
Joined: 7/4/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The relationship you're imagining between masochism and abuse is coincidental. 1 in 4 women have been abused. I don't know what the rates of masochism are. Lets pick ten percent. That means that 25 of 100 masochistic women will have been abused.

But that's coincidence, not causal.


If you're using Mary Koss's old study (the usual source for 1-in-4 stats), her methodology was seriously flawed, and only ~25% of her 25% figure (so, roughly 1 in 16) saw themselves as victims. She was off by at least a factor of 4 for most purposes.

Otherwise, agreed; the link is, at least mostly, coincidental.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 5:04:15 AM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

What is rolfing? I have to look high and wide for new fetishes, you know.



Rolfing Structural Integration
It's a type of bodywork and movement education that reorganizes
the connective tissues(fascia). It works to realign and balance the
whole body, relieve discomfort and tension, and alleviate pain.
Two prominent benefits of Rolfing are improved posture and better
and freer movement.

You have to have it done by a certified Rolf practitioner.
On average you have ten sessions. It's a very intense
experience, emotionally as well as physically. Not for
the faint hearted. I underwent it a few years ago and
I'm very glad I did. But it's not for everyone.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 5:09:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75

I would like to run this by the group to get a concensus. I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive, but the submissive does not have to be a masochist. I think the Masochist is ussualy the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame. I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level. It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.



Used to be the excuse people dragged out when trying to explain why a women would be sexually attracted to another women instead of a man. I thought it was bullshit back then and I feel the same way about this new twist on it.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 5:27:04 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Poster, I don't think your wrong about some masochist wanting what they do out of something from their past, but it clearly isn't correct in a lot of peoples situations.
I do know in my situation, a lot of choices I have made did stem from my past, when I wasn't even aware of it for a long time.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 5:52:30 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
It an opinion. I would like to hear what others think.

I think your opinions are woefully unaligned with the reality I observe.

I believe that a masochist is most certain a submissive
Why? As I understand masochism we're talking about someone gets sexual gratification out of some sort of pain. What has that got to do with any sort of submission?

but the submissive does not have to be a masochist.
This I agree with. I see them as entirely unrelated to each other.

I think the Masochist is usually the product of early childhood sexual abuse and it is typically laced with guilt and shame.
I could be wrong but not only does this fail to align with what I've read from various posters here and elsewhere but it also flies in the face of what few reasonably scientific studies which I've read. Is there some reason you can't just like pain? Various people have various reactions to pain. I tend to ignore it. Carol tends to be a wimp about it. She also has some "masochistic tendencies" that I could fan into flame if I wanted to. Hell, I could probably take on masochism as an acquired taste if it suddenly seemed beneficial to my marriage.

I think the submissive can get in at any point of their life and at any level.
Sort of. Carol is what I call "socially submissive" (think doormat without all the ugly parts). Just as I am a "natural born leader" she is a "natural born follower". Hell, most humans are natural born followers to some degree... it's just she's moreso than the norm. In other words, when I look labels like "dominant" and "submissive" I'm looking at core personality traits and they tend to be gotten at early ages.

Insofar as your "level" comment, what the heck is that? Do you have some submissivosity measuring device you're using? How would you know a "level 3" submissive from a "level 8" submissive?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 7:17:42 AM   
casidi75


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		Well folks thank you all for bringing me into the light. I know time is precious and I appreciate that you were willing to give me some of yours. I really thought I knew something but found out I am a newbie. I was would love to think I would not post anything stupid or ignorant but it likely to happen again. i am Grateful i am here. My path may have been different but i fell like i belong. Gratefully Casidi

(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 7:32:25 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75
I was would love to think I would not post anything stupid or ignorant but it likely to happen again.

... to all of us, not simply you. :)

Welcome to CM.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to casidi75)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 12:42:57 PM   
casidi75


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		I share a similar experience back in the 60s there was little awareness that if a 5 year old developed sexual behavior he was acting out with neighborhood girls it was because some one showed them. My mother was a scottish matriarc and she belived i was a little pervet a bad seed. i took many beatens for my inapropiate behavior. When i was 8 i was molested again by another women and at 15 i knocked up a 28 year old dom. We married and were together for 25 years. i was and my children were disowned by their grandmother. The head fuck is huge especially when you really young for you dont even understand why your being beaten and robbed of efection and nurturing. I am learning here there is a huge up side and i will grow knoledgeable and healthy with the folks here. Thank you for sharing this with me I know it is hard. What is important is to know it was not our fault. Warm regards casidi

(in reply to lilcracker)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive - 9/27/2013 12:45:51 PM   
casidi75


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		What a beautiful way to live. Thanks

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Masochism Vrs Submissive Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125