RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/28/2013 10:55:30 PM)

Glad you are having fun.



tj444 -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/28/2013 11:13:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed

also, my delightful Manboob Ratnose, you must understand that in the USA, once the guns are imported legally OR illegally, they are there. on the street, sometimes sold at schoolyard parking lots.

even if uncared for, those guns are lethal for ten years or so. In anyone's hands. wasting time on the gun laws which CANNOT REMOVE THE GUNS CURRENTLY OUT THERE will not save lives.

Changing the culture that affects the insticts of people who might own the guns, WILL.

of course, I already said the sheer numbers of guns out there is a problem for gun control... but if the govt offers cash for guns (& then they are destroyed), that would reduce the numbers & save some lives.. and making people that didn't turn their gun in pay for the true cost of any damage that was caused by their gun.. (injury, death, cost of crime using the gun, hospital costs, loss of income, etc).. in some places now if people ski out of bounds & need to be rescued, they can be sent a bill for the cost of their rescue.. perhaps gun owners need to pay in that same way also, should their gun cause harm..

They can be sued now if they misuse their gun.
Or do you mean fining someone because their gun is stolen and used improperly.

yup, including if someone steals it and hurts someone or commits a crime with it, etc.. or if someone in their family is accidentally hurt or killed (like recently a guy wakes up & shoots what he thinks is an intruder.. who turns out to be his wife coming home),.. all cases, regardless.. that's what I mean..



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/28/2013 11:38:04 PM)

So you think it is right and fair that after a person is victimized by being robbed they should be victimized again because the thief isn't a good person. Is that correct?
Lets fine everyone for being victimized, or don't you think gun owners are due the basic human rights given to all other crime victims?



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/28/2013 11:40:51 PM)

Make the victim the criminal, that would put us on the level with Dubai where they arrested a woman for being raped.



Yachtie -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 9:30:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Make the victim the criminal, that would put us on the level with Dubai where they arrested a woman for being raped.



Isn't the criminal the victim when confronted with a gun? [;)]



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 9:50:14 AM)

Isn't the criminal the victim when confronted with a gun? [;)]


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To read some of these posts you would think so.



tj444 -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:35:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

So you think it is right and fair that after a person is victimized by being robbed they should be victimized again because the thief isn't a good person. Is that correct?
Lets fine everyone for being victimized, or don't you think gun owners are due the basic human rights given to all other crime victims?

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off.. if you want to keep one around where someone can steal it, or your kid can play cops n robbers with it, then yes.. your crime would be not having it hidden away where it could not be found and locked up securely (with a fingerprint lock on it).. that is only my personal opinion of what would be needed to get thru to all those MEATBALLS out there.. of course I don't ever expect that laws would be instituted to be anywhere near that strict, especially given the political gridlock.. I expect there wont be any major changes in gun laws for 20 or 30 years, if at all.. so I don't expect any end to mass shootings, accidental shootings, or shooting your wife/hubby and saying "ooppps, thought he/she was an intruder.. my bad".. kids taking daddy's gun(s) to school, shooting their brother/sister in the foot or elsewhere, etc, etc.. again, jmo..



Yachtie -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:42:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off..


Mine haven't. Stupid bombs, 40 years and not one can even go off. [:D] Who makes these worthless things?[8D]



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:42:07 PM)

And there is the minor problem of it being unconstitutional.
As if someone stole your neighbors car and used it in a bank robbery and you make the original owner an accomplice .
You cannot hold person A responsible for the actions of person B outside of some tyrannical political system. 



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:48:09 PM)

 if you want to keep one around where someone can steal it, or your kid can play cops n robbers with it, then yes.. your crime would be not having it hidden away where it could not be found and locked up securely (with a fingerprint lock on it)..

A  I have taught a bunch of kids gun safety and not one of them would have ever "played cops and robbers" with them that happens with kids around people like you that see to it kids no nothing about guns except they are some kind of adult mystery that needs to be investigated.

B  A person can have a gun as long as they make damn sure they can't get it if they need it.

C get real 

D guns are no more time bombs than cars matches or fertilizer.



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:51:33 PM)

In my personal experience doctors are far more  dangerous than guns.



tj444 -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:52:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And there is the minor problem of it being unconstitutional.
As if someone stole your neighbors car and used it in a bank robbery and you make the original owner an accomplice .
You cannot hold person A responsible for the actions of person B outside of some tyrannical political system. 

as I said, that was my personal opinion (the Patriot Act is also unconstitutional yet people drink the Kool-Aid and defend it).. I seriously doubt this country will change & I don't want to live in a country with this kind of gun culture and at some point be touched by it..

eta- lots of gun owners teach kids about guns but kids can still get accidentally hurt..



truckinslave -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 12:59:32 PM)

quote:

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off.


Ignorance creates fear (and, evidently, stupid similes).



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 1:10:48 PM)

 I don't want to live in a country with this kind of gun culture

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A  One Constitutional infringement not only does not justify another, it make the next fight more important.

B  Then don't



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 1:25:01 PM)

 lots of gun owners teach kids about guns but kids can still get accidentally hurt..

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But the chances are much better of them getting hurt if you keep them ignorant.



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 2:11:44 PM)

Never mind.



lovmuffin -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 2:12:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world,
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 2


I thought this was worth reposting as it was toward the end of the other thread, and it's on every post in the signature line from tj444. While they are worth a watch they only prove the need for training and practice.

A few observations:


1) I seriously doubt the anti gun ABC would have shown any positive outcomes for the armed citizen assuming there was one.

2) One of the guys simulating the pandemonium in the classroom jumps over the counter into the middle of the room in front of the active shooter. I don't think that was a realistic.

3) Holstering your handgun straight up and down on the side of your dominate arm for concealed carry is a bad idea. It should have been holstered on the opposite side and canted forward for a cross draw. It's quicker and less likely to get caught up in the shirt. Even for a police officer sitting in a vehicle with his sidearm unconcealed, the cross draw is going to be quicker. Getting your concealed weapon caught up in clothing has been a consideration among gun toters since as far back as I can remember. Some handguns are even designed with that in mind such as smoothing sharp edges, especially the front and rear sights and cutting the hammer tail down or manufacturing with internal hammers on revolvers. The participants in the demonstration should have practiced drawing the weapon and they might have dramatically increased their speed.

4) What's up with the participants wearing gloves. I hate wearing a shooting glove and it certainly won't enhance the speed of your draw.

5) The guy playing the part of the active shooter was a professional, an instructor, ie expert. How advantageous for the expert vs the average or inexperienced shooter participant was that ?



BamaD -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 2:26:31 PM)

Reminds me of one that  "proved"   that allowing permit holders to carry on college campus was futile.

They had several different groups go through each with an "armed" person the "bad guy won every time but once.

The "armed" student had to wear a yellow t-shirt and always had to set in the same chair.
The one exception was when one of the "students"  insisted on trading shirts and seats with another student. The "bad guy"  never knew what hit him.



NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 5:14:21 PM)

again, all this is dependent on the willingness of a citizen to adhere to the law, and that means self-control, and impulse control, especially in heated situations.

Meatheads HAVE no impulse control, this is one of the main aspects of BEING a meathead.

There are many stringent and detailed laws concerning physical and verbal assault. Meatheads ignore those too.

If you look at how many people get pulled over by a cop for bad driving, in any country, then assault the cop, how many of them know even 2 names from the Literary or Cultural Luminaries of their own culture, no matter what that culture is? How many know who you mean when you invoke the name "Samuel Clemens" or explain what the wonder of John Henry beating the steam-machine meant? How many could answer you if you asked them "How many nights did Scheherezade have to spent trying to keep her head?", if you tried to stop them getting meat-head violent at a public event at a primarily Islamic side of town? If in an Irish area, how many would know the name of the fallen hero in the window of the first Non British National Post, in Ireland? And on, and on, and on.



truckinslave -> RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (10/29/2013 5:23:28 PM)

quote:

the Literary or Cultural Luminaries


How many would know when to capitalize?



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