RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***

RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 12:21:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Oh those darn Norwegions. An automatic rifle in every home and a third the murder rate of Britian where guns are outlawed. As to a wiki link to a United Nations paper. Bah, I've seen the FBI stats enough to call it BS. My original assertions stand. I think eulero validated my point even while trying to argue. I was not invalidating the point that guns are not violent by themself, I was invalidating your affirmation that violent crime in the USA is mostly connected to gangs or immigrants, I also cited sources from the US department of justice and they all match with the other numbers. Norway has very restrictive gun laws, automatic rifles are forbidden to civilians for example, some calibers are forbidden as well, and gun ownership is 1/3 of the USA's one, so please cut the crap. White people aren't allowed in gangs? Doj has to investigate this blatant racial discrimination.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 1:15:32 PM)
and black are also US citizens, so the truth is it doesn't matter, I used the wrong stats. But the question stands, why are you so violent and ? You say gun aviability has nothing to do with it, so what's the reason in your opinion?

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 1:26:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 and black are also US citizens, so the truth is it doesn't matter, I used the wrong stats. But the question stands, why are you so violent and ? You say gun aviability has nothing to do with it, so what's the reason in your opinion? Lots of reasons. Gangs Glorification of gangs Lack of values Total warping of the meaning of respect. Victimization mentality, the idea that certain groups have to be excused their crimes because of past wrongs. The eagerness to blame anything but the person who committed the crime. You see it here any time a person has the gall to defend themselves the are instantly attacked as the wrong doer and their assailant is forgotten, even made into the victim. If it isn't their fault why shouldn't they do it? The murder rate in the US with clubs is greater than the murder rate in England, how do you blame that on guns.

Kirata -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 1:32:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 and black are also US citizens, so the truth is it doesn't matter, I used the wrong stats. But the question stands, why are you so violent and ? You say gun aviability has nothing to do with it, so what's the reason in your opinion? I don't know about anyone else, but a certain kind of person can sometimes cause me to contemplate various unpleasant cures for his condition. K.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 2:07:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Gangs it's not a reason for the problem it's part of the problem quote: Glorification of gangs so people join a gang to be with the cool kids? quote: Lack of values probably one of the main reasons but what kind of values do you think will help? quote: Total warping of the meaning of respect. what's supposed to mean? quote: Victimization mentality, the idea that certain groups have to be excused their crimes because of past wrongs. The eagerness to blame anything but the person who committed the crime. you are the most incarcerated people in the world, I don't think you are eager to excuse anyone. quote: You see it here any time a person has the gall to defend themselves the are instantly attacked as the wrong doer and their assailant is forgotten, even made into the victim. If it isn't their fault why shouldn't they do it? 1) You have some of the laws with most reasons of justification in the use of deadly force so I don't think this can be one reason 2) the goal shuold be not having to defend yourself at all quote: The murder rate in the US with clubs is greater than the murder rate in England, how do you blame that on guns. but guns are always the first and more effective choice, and no homicides with any other weapon than guns (not only clubs) rate is just lower than the homicide rate in UK.

thishereboi -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 2:56:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 it downloads a document from the united nations you can see it checking the link address by the way it's also on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate the other link, the one for the race based stats, is from the us department if justice Nice link but it doesn't say anywhere that people in the US kill 5 times as many as those in Europe.

thishereboi -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 2:58:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 My english has been good enough for all the other members, in many other threads. By the way in your posts there are spelling and grammar mistakes, english is not my language what is your excuse? I used both incarceration and homicides rate as the former gives an idea on how many crimes are committed and the second gives and idea of the violence level and incarceration rate can be influenced by the different legal systems while the homicides can be compared directly, they are numbers... they have the same meaning in all the languages... so just comment them. Well according to the link you provided... The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries. Intentional homicide may or may not include infanticide, assisted suicide or euthanasia.[2] So no, they don't have the same meaning in all languages

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:14:35 PM)
trivial, both UK and US count them in their stats.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:16:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 it downloads a document from the united nations you can see it checking the link address by the way it's also on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate the other link, the one for the race based stats, is from the us department if justice Nice link but it doesn't say anywhere that people in the US kill 5 times as many as those in Europe. if the intentional homicide rate in the US is 4.7 and the average rate in european union is 1 then it says that people in US kills 4.7 times more than people in EU

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:27:20 PM)
in the EU it's 1.4 so it's not 5 but 3.5 times anyway it's some times more

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Gangs it's not a reason for the problem it's part of the problem -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gangs fueled by drug money is our greatest source of crime, so yes it is a cause. Most any cause is part of the problem.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:45:45 PM)
quote: Glorification of gangs so people join a gang to be with the cool kids? -------------------------------------------------------------------- In many areas being a gang member is a mark of prestige.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:54:40 PM)
quote: Lack of values probably one of the main reasons but what kind of values do you think will help? quote: Total warping of the meaning of respect. what's supposed to mean? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These two are linked. There are numerous cases of people being killed or injured just for not looking down, this being disrespect. A recent case a teen was beaten with a baseball bat that had nails driven part way in to make spikes. His crime? Someone had left a gang colors bandana on the ground and the gang decided that he was the one to pay for it. Both of these because the ganstas didn't get what they term as respect. We need to re instill The understanding that you aren't the only one who deserves respect. Kids need to relearn to respect other people's property and well being.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:56:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Gangs it's not a reason for the problem it's part of the problem -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gangs fueled by drug money is our greatest source of crime, so yes it is a cause. Most any cause is part of the problem. So the gratest part of criminals are the greatest source of crime? good to know, the question was why you have so much more?

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:57:17 PM)
quote: You see it here any time a person has the gall to defend themselves the are instantly attacked as the wrong doer and their assailant is forgotten, even made into the victim. If it isn't their fault why shouldn't they do it? 1) You have some of the laws with most reasons of justification in the use of deadly force so I don't think this can be one reason 2) the goal shuold be not having to defend yourself at all ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course the goal is to not have to defend yourself. Just cause you don't see it doesn't make it so.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 3:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: Glorification of gangs so people join a gang to be with the cool kids? -------------------------------------------------------------------- In many areas being a gang member is a mark of prestige. probably of power, because they control the area, not prestige, it's not that the mayor gives a prize to the most violent and the biggest in number gang, I suppose.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 4:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Gangs it's not a reason for the problem it's part of the problem -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gangs fueled by drug money is our greatest source of crime, so yes it is a cause. Most any cause is part of the problem. So the gratest part of criminals are the greatest source of crime? good to know, the question was why you have so much more? Because they have developed a subculture that starts with them being victims of society. This justifies them ignoring the standards of society because it won't help them anyway. So only the gangs rules and standards count. Only the gang members really deserve to be treated as people the rest are just sheep to be fleeced.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 4:05:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: Glorification of gangs so people join a gang to be with the cool kids? -------------------------------------------------------------------- In many areas being a gang member is a mark of prestige. probably of power, because they control the area, not prestige, it's not that the mayor gives a prize to the most violent and the biggest in number gang, I suppose. I hope you "misunderstood" intentionally. Since they don't recognize society in general they don't care what the mayor says or does. The prestige and power come from the peer group.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 4:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: Lack of values probably one of the main reasons but what kind of values do you think will help? quote: Total warping of the meaning of respect. what's supposed to mean? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These two are linked. There are numerous cases of people being killed or injured just for not looking down, this being disrespect. A recent case a teen was beaten with a baseball bat that had nails driven part way in to make spikes. His crime? Someone had left a gang colors bandana on the ground and the gang decided that he was the one to pay for it. Both of these because the ganstas didn't get what they term as respect. We need to re instill The understanding that you aren't the only one who deserves respect. Kids need to relearn to respect other people's property and well being. I suppose this are not the value accepted by the majority of people composing your society, it's just that some are exploiting the weakness of your individualism forming organized groups.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/3/2013 4:16:57 PM)
I suppose this are not the value accepted by the majority of people composing your society, it's just that some are exploiting the weakness of your individualism forming organized groups. ------------------------ Predictable statist view.

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