RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***

RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 5:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 use google I found it on a document in italian, but they are public statistics why would I do that? You already admitted you were wrong quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 in the EU it's 1.4 so it's not 5 but 3.5 times anyway it's some times more

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 7:24:26 AM)
so don't, if you want to tell something about do it, but I'm done looking for sources for nothing.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 8:31:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I answer in a single post, criminals want money and organized crime secure its source of money by controlling the territory, three things make it easier for them: individualism of people that think they can defend by their own and don't care about others, easy access to guns and a low rate of uniformed police officers patrolling the streets, than social degrade is fertile ground for the growing of new criminals, as you said that kind of distorted values exist only in that subcultures but there must be a reason if people end to accept that rules. It's sad that you can't discuss the philosophy I put forth. You merely serve your Kool Aid for mass consumption. Gangs are a product of one of our failed trips down socialist nirvana lane. At the time Johnson imposed the "Great Society" socialism black children being born out of wedlock into families with no father around was lower than most other cultures in this country. After thirty years of the socialist Great Society being inflicted on them, basically forcing them to become statist wards, their rate of children being born to unwed mothers climbed to nearly eighty percent where it remains. Gangs are a product of the socialist ideal of forcing subjects to become dependent. Eulero, it's too bad you can't discuss the philosophy.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 8:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I suppose this are not the value accepted by the majority of people composing your society, it's just that some are exploiting the weakness of your individualism forming organized groups. It's not our individualism being exploited, it's your socialism that created the detached subculture.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 8:41:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I answer in a single post, criminals want money and organized crime secure its source of money by controlling the territory, three things make it easier for them: individualism of people that think they can defend by their own and don't care about others, easy access to guns and a low rate of uniformed police officers patrolling the streets, than social degrade is fertile ground for the growing of new criminals, as you said that kind of distorted values exist only in that subcultures but there must be a reason if people end to accept that rules. Eulero, your subjugation by the state is so intense you fear individualism. You fear not having a controlling nanny state. And because you fear you lash out at what makes you afraid. We saw the same thing when the individualistic US Army liberated all of Europe and especially the European Concentration Camps during WWII. I think they call it the Stockholm Syndrome now. You can't see what your owners have done to you so you're really not worth debating.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 8:50:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero You have 256 police officers every 100000 persons and one police officer every 12 squared km, in Italy we have 417 police officers every 100000 persons and one police officer every 1.2 squared km, in another thread jlf1961 said in his area in average police needs 25 minutes to show up, we have a police station every 7 minutes drive also in rural areas. That's what I meant. Dude, when was the last time a major medical discovery was made in Italy? When was the last time Italy sent a man to the moon? When was the last time Italy moved the art world, the business world, or the information world? It doesn't because when you are subject to group think you can't see outside your group.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:08:35 AM)
Eulero, read a book called Watership Down. Come out of the rabbit warren and see the light. When the Iron Curtain fell people in East Germany lost will and yearned to be placed back under a Stalinistic yoke. For decades they didnt do well and became a burdon on Europe. They could not stand to be free. Eulero, you're the same. You fear being an individual. Your government has trained you to fear being an individual. But, in mitigation of that, Europeans have always been subjects of the state, we really can't blame you. We just have to accept that here, as free people, we have to take your shot that you lash out with against that which you don't understand and fear. Now, I have no more use for you since you can't see you can't say any think worth considering.

eulero83 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:21:53 AM)
HunterCA, for your information I'm not socialist, I'm liberal democratic. Your posts show so much ignorance that is impossible to talk to you.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:36:52 AM)
Bama, when debating with post modern thinking people, such as socialists, keep in mind that its a made up philosophy that rejects all human historical learning. They pride themselves on "seeing the world differently". Then what usually happens when they force a new governance system in place, it will always fail because it never takes into consideration human nature. But, usually when the system fails the post modern implementor is miles down the road and no longer interested. How they wreck society is less interesting to them than inflicting control on society. Name me one post modern system that did what it intended? So a post modern thinker like eulero can never really debate your point. They, like Saul Aylinski in this country taught leftists, can only use ridicule to prevail in an argument. Never give them ridicule. Eulero only can attack individualism by attributing it to the Wild West and never acknowledging who put a man on the moon. The only way to argue with them is to go to their foundation which is always built on sand. In eulero's case, his group think lead to Mussolini and fascism. The European Union is collapsing and would have already had the US not poured hugh amounts into the World Bank. So what you do with people like eulero is ignore his little barbs and demand they stick to philosophy. They can't. And since this is a philosophical debate on the 2nd amendment, just ignore that they have nothing to say except ridicule.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:39:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I answer in a single post, criminals want money and organized crime secure its source of money by controlling the territory, three things make it easier for them: individualism of people that think they can defend by their own and don't care about others, easy access to guns and a low rate of uniformed police officers patrolling the streets, than social degrade is fertile ground for the growing of new criminals, as you said that kind of distorted values exist only in that subcultures but there must be a reason if people end to accept that rules. Yet another misrepresentation, I know of know one who wants to take on the gangs without the police, but we want to be able to defend ourselves while we are waiting for them to show up. And the assertion that people who want to defend themselves don't care about others is ridiculous. But you are one of those who while you don't even realize it want us to hide in our homes while hearing our neighbor s being raped or murdered. sorry "not caring" was not the right words, I made a mistake, what I meant was warring only when crimes happen instead caring how to prevent them for the safety of everyone else even people you don't know, guns can't do that period, if you have to defend yourself so much it means that society failed as a whole. Who, besides you, says that gun owners don't support the fight against crime. We are MORE LIKELY to support the police than the general population. And no it does not mean society as a whole has failed it means the criminal has failed society.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:41:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD When is the last time there was a thread on here about a self defense case where you said one word in defense of the man protecting himself or his family. Now tell me again how nobody goes after the person who defends himself. Because the cases that happens to be reported are always borderline in legal and moral terms! Otherwise there would be no reason to discuss them! If there was an article saying: "intuder gets killed in victim home/shop" I would say nothing against the home owner! But when it is about a moron that goes outside and shoots at every car passing by than no I'm not cool with that! Another example of how you will believe a anti gun blog over a judge. that judge applied a permissive law with the looser interpretation possible, the law was wrong and badly written. And not one piece of evidence about him shooting up every car that went by was in any way verified. Further the appeal is based on a lie.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:43:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I answer in a single post, criminals want money and organized crime secure its source of money by controlling the territory, three things make it easier for them: individualism of people that think they can defend by their own and don't care about others, easy access to guns and a low rate of uniformed police officers patrolling the streets, than social degrade is fertile ground for the growing of new criminals, as you said that kind of distorted values exist only in that subcultures but there must be a reason if people end to accept that rules. No I gave that as one example.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 HunterCA, for your information I'm not socialist, I'm liberal democratic. Your posts show so much ignorance that is impossible to talk to you. See, ridicule. My point exactly. Eulero, as I write these things I'm interspersing my time between here and the rifle range on my porch. Today is the last day of deer season where I live and all weekend I've heard gunshots from all directions around me. That makes me feel safe. All of my neighbors are armed and free people. It's not something you'll understand. If you want to debate the philosophy of being free compared to the philosophy of being a subject, then do so. But that's not what you do. It's not something you can do.

RacerJim -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:46:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 HunterCA, for your information I'm not socialist, I'm liberal democratic. Your posts show so much ignorance that is impossible to talk to you. eulero83, for your information today's liberal democrats are even worse than socialists...they are (communist) progressives. Your posts show so much denial and/or obfuscation that it is impossible to talk to you.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:47:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Bama, when debating with post modern thinking people, such as socialists, keep in mind that its a made up philosophy that rejects all human historical learning. They pride themselves on "seeing the world differently". Then what usually happens when they force a new governance system in place, it will always fail because it never takes into consideration human nature. But, usually when the system fails the post modern implementor is miles down the road and no longer interested. How they wreck society is less interesting to them than inflicting control on society. Name me one post modern system that did what it intended? So a post modern thinker like eulero can never really debate your point. They, like Saul Aylinski in this country taught leftists, can only use ridicule to prevail in an argument. Never give them ridicule. Eulero only can attack individualism by attributing it to the Wild West and never acknowledging who put a man on the moon. The only way to argue with them is to go to their foundation which is always built on sand. In eulero's case, his group think lead to Mussolini and fascism. The European Union is collapsing and would have already had the US not poured hugh amounts into the World Bank. So what you do with people like eulero is ignore his little barbs and demand they stick to philosophy. They can't. And since this is a philosophical debate on the 2nd amendment, just ignore that they have nothing to say except ridicule. Not a thing there I disagree with but I do like to mess with them. otherwise I might as well put all of Europe on hide.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Bama, when debating with post modern thinking people, such as socialists, keep in mind that its a made up philosophy that rejects all human historical learning. They pride themselves on "seeing the world differently". Then what usually happens when they force a new governance system in place, it will always fail because it never takes into consideration human nature. But, usually when the system fails the post modern implementor is miles down the road and no longer interested. How they wreck society is less interesting to them than inflicting control on society. Name me one post modern system that did what it intended? So a post modern thinker like eulero can never really debate your point. They, like Saul Aylinski in this country taught leftists, can only use ridicule to prevail in an argument. Never give them ridicule. Eulero only can attack individualism by attributing it to the Wild West and never acknowledging who put a man on the moon. The only way to argue with them is to go to their foundation which is always built on sand. In eulero's case, his group think lead to Mussolini and fascism. The European Union is collapsing and would have already had the US not poured hugh amounts into the World Bank. So what you do with people like eulero is ignore his little barbs and demand they stick to philosophy. They can't. And since this is a philosophical debate on the 2nd amendment, just ignore that they have nothing to say except ridicule. Not a thing there I disagree with but I do like to mess with them. otherwise I might as well put all of Europe on hide. Lol, I grant you that. Of course, it'll make eulero's inferiority complex twitch.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:52:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 HunterCA, for your information I'm not socialist, I'm liberal democratic. Your posts show so much ignorance that is impossible to talk to you. See, ridicule. My point exactly. Eulero, as I write these things I'm interspersing my time between here and the rifle range on my porch. Today is the last day of deer season where I live and all weekend I've heard gunshots from all directions around me. That makes me feel safe. All of my neighbors are armed and free people. It's not something you'll understand. If you want to debate the philosophy of being free compared to the philosophy of being a subject, then do so. But that's not what you do. It's not something you can do. I accidently started that debate a few months ago then started a thread on it. The Europeans and many Americans were offended that I did not see Citizen and subject as interchangeable terms. As if Dom and sub were interchangeable.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 9:54:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Bama, when debating with post modern thinking people, such as socialists, keep in mind that its a made up philosophy that rejects all human historical learning. They pride themselves on "seeing the world differently". Then what usually happens when they force a new governance system in place, it will always fail because it never takes into consideration human nature. But, usually when the system fails the post modern implementor is miles down the road and no longer interested. How they wreck society is less interesting to them than inflicting control on society. Name me one post modern system that did what it intended? So a post modern thinker like eulero can never really debate your point. They, like Saul Aylinski in this country taught leftists, can only use ridicule to prevail in an argument. Never give them ridicule. Eulero only can attack individualism by attributing it to the Wild West and never acknowledging who put a man on the moon. The only way to argue with them is to go to their foundation which is always built on sand. In eulero's case, his group think lead to Mussolini and fascism. The European Union is collapsing and would have already had the US not poured hugh amounts into the World Bank. So what you do with people like eulero is ignore his little barbs and demand they stick to philosophy. They can't. And since this is a philosophical debate on the 2nd amendment, just ignore that they have nothing to say except ridicule. Not a thing there I disagree with but I do like to mess with them. otherwise I might as well put all of Europe on hide. Lol, I grant you that. Of course, it'll make eulero's inferiority complex twitch. Everyone needs goals

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 10:04:41 AM)
Eulero, I was once engaged to a woman who when I met her was teaching philosophy at Harvard. She was deeply inculcated in post modern philosophy. One day we were flying from Dubai to Singapore. When we landed I said the old pilots adage, "It's always nice to have as many landings as takeoffs. She, being a good post modern thinker, said, "that's not true I bet I can think of five different ways." I told her to go ahead. To which she came up with five different alternatives that would have killed everyone on board the plane. But, she was happy that she thought up five alternate worlds. And since she was my women I kissed her on the forehead and told her how smart she was. She was a smart girl, she spoke 36 languages. The last time I debate with a guy with a Phd in post modern philosophy I, as an engineer, stated I preferred my modernistic thinking because basically when I built a water treatment plant when it was done I had to flip a switch and either it worked or it did not. He said, "that's not true, I'll bet I can think of a different alternative." I told him to have at it, come up with an alternative. He did, he said, "You could flip the water treatment plant switch and get muddy water." And that's how a socialist thinks. We need to make society conform to the existence of planes crashing and killing people and drinking muddy water so government can show how smart it is imposing new systems on the masses. After a time the masses acclimate to muddy water and extol the virtue of the group drinking muddy water.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/4/2013 10:12:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 HunterCA, for your information I'm not socialist, I'm liberal democratic. Your posts show so much ignorance that is impossible to talk to you. Everything you say reeks of a statist view, it doesn't matter what label you put on it.

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