RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (Full Version)

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BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/6/2013 9:47:32 PM)

And my posts still aren't being read. I AM interested in meeting peoples needs. I AM interested in spending time people. I am NOT interested in people lying to my face about what I do and what my needs are. I am also NOT AT ALL interested in a 'fuck buddy' or a short term. Where did you randomly get that from? Have any of you met me before? Why are you making important life decisions for me, a 24 year old woman? Why should I be your submissive? What gives you the right to decide when I have sex? What if I want something else FIRST? Am I not allowed it simply because I'm not as manic as other people and therefore I'm just an animal? What's that called again, rape?
Just because I can't stand up for a week doesn't mean I don't enjoy chatting to someone. But expecting me to be manic 24/7 just for someone elses feelings is selfish, ridiculous, unrealistic and disgusting.
I had asked these questions because I honestly don't even know what having my own space respected even looks like anymore. I've already had at least a month of my life wasted and still have nightmares from the toxic space I had. As I said I wanted to know what I was getting into and whether or not something completely different existed before I gave it a try. I am absolutely bored and tired of toxic people who waste my energy and expect me to entertain them 24/7. I want to know how to avoid that and get something else.
Others in the thread said they need space and quiet too. Why am I not allowed that same basic right?
Please answer these questions in this post because I just want these questions answered, nothing else, that includes bullying and abelism.

@DesFIP

"Demanding a week of no interaction is not."

Please tell me where I apparently demanded this.

"You don't seem to be a good candidate for much more than a fuck buddy."

Please let me know where in this thread I said this is what I was looking for.

100% honesty please!



sunshinemiss -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/6/2013 11:51:14 PM)

When people are attempting to be helpful and are shut down with abrasive comments and "yes, but" answers, generally speaking, those same people decide they don't need the negative interaction and simply choose to walk away. Or at least healthy people do.

OP, good luck to you.
sunshine



BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 12:09:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

When people are attempting to be helpful and are shut down with abrasive comments and "yes, but" answers, generally speaking, those same people decide they don't need the negative interaction and simply choose to walk away. Or at least healthy people do.

OP, good luck to you.
sunshine


Personally I don't consider armchair physiologists trying to diagnose something irrelevant to the thread and ignoring every question I actually ask as very helpful. I find it patronizing and potentially abelist. I get it often.

"Can I have some cake?"
"OMG you have asthma?? We must spend three days finding a cure NOW!"

Seriously. It gets painfully boring. I am NOT my disability. I DO have interests outside my condition. And one of them is finding something that won't just make said condition worse.



graceadieu -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 5:44:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFI]

Someone who withdraws from social interaction for more than a week after one loud evening is not someone who has anything to offer anyone else.


No offense but I find this line kind of disgusting. Some people have health issues related to Depression, ME, Autism ect. Not everyone has ADHD. Not everyone is on Meth. Some people need to shut down for a day. Some people pass out after doing the dishes. Some people can't get out of bed for months. These people DO exist.This does NOT make them any less human. This does NOT remove their basic human rights. This does NOT give everyone around them an excuse to disrespect their needs and make their issues worse on purpose. This does NOT mean they don't deserve friends and loved ones.


I don't think anyone is saying that. But having uncontrolled issues with depression etc can make it hard to be there, emotionally, for a partner in a healthy way. You have needs, but so do they. I've been in a place, before, where I was too depressed to have much to offer a partner, so I do have some idea what I'm talking about here.

I would recommend talking to a therapist. It sounds like you're having a hard time knowing your triggers and avoiding them, or seeing your early warning signs and knowing what you need to do to keep yourself healthy once you feel them. That will probably help you immensely, so you don't get to the point of needing total silence for days.



thishereboi -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:56:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

When people are attempting to be helpful and are shut down with abrasive comments and "yes, but" answers, generally speaking, those same people decide they don't need the negative interaction and simply choose to walk away. Or at least healthy people do.

OP, good luck to you.
sunshine


Personally I don't consider armchair physiologists trying to diagnose something irrelevant to the thread and ignoring every question I actually ask as very helpful. I find it patronizing and potentially abelist. I get it often.

"Can I have some cake?"
"OMG you have asthma?? We must spend three days finding a cure NOW!"

Seriously. It gets painfully boring. I am NOT my disability. I DO have interests outside my condition. And one of them is finding something that won't just make said condition worse.



People have been giving you very good advice and you seem to be missing it. You claim this happens all the time to you. Have you ever looked at the constant in the equation? You post like you are totally out of control yet claim to be considering owing another person. How are you going to control someone else when you can't control yourself? If you get this upset in an online discussion how will you be able to handle one in real life when you can't just shut off the screen when someone says something you don't like? Sorry kid, but I agree with the ones that said get professional help.



evesgrden -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 8:24:51 AM)

quote:

Why are you making important life decisions for me, a 24 year old woman? Why should I be your submissive? What gives you the right to decide when I have sex? What if I want something else FIRST? Am I not allowed it simply because I'm not as manic as other people and therefore I'm just an animal? What's that called again, rape?


Ok, sounds like you tried being submissive to someone with whom you were clearly not compatible, so now you want to know if being dominant will help you find a relationship filled with peace and quiet.

1. Why not learn sign language and date someone who is deaf. Speech and other vocalistions won't be much of an issue.

2. Forget kink and d/s. Just don't go out on that second date unless you feel a real sense of calm with the person on that first date.




mnottertail -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 10:32:38 AM)

Here I thought this was a fatgirl thread, and a perfect opportunity for me to solicit blowjobs. Fatish, indeed.

We need a fatgirl thread.



BurntKitty -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 10:41:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

quote:

Why are you making important life decisions for me, a 24 year old woman? Why should I be your submissive? What gives you the right to decide when I have sex? What if I want something else FIRST? Am I not allowed it simply because I'm not as manic as other people and therefore I'm just an animal? What's that called again, rape?


Ok, sounds like you tried being submissive to someone with whom you were clearly not compatible, so now you want to know if being dominant will help you find a relationship filled with peace and quiet.

1. Why not learn sign language and date someone who is deaf. Speech and other vocalistions won't be much of an issue.

2. Forget kink and d/s. Just don't go out on that second date unless you feel a real sense of calm with the person on that first date.




Damn, I was going to suggest this one.

BTD- Why not just forget about d/s or m/s or any other form of BDSM? My idea to get that peace and quiet is to get an apartment of your own. Hire someone to soundproof the walls so you don't hear neighbors screaming, loud music, or parties thrown. (Now I know you didn't specify those items exactly, but as someone who has lived in apartments they are a byproduct of multi-housing living.) It would be ideal if you could buy or rent a cottage that's isolated from city traffic and city sounds, but that might not be financially feasible.

Once you're actually living alone or with your cat (as stated in your profile) then if you feel the urge to date, go ahead and date. Don't look for toppy or bottomy folks. Date people who have the same interests as yourself. Whether that interest is art, music, movies, cats, dogs, politics, religion, sports or counselling meth-heads, just date someone you have common interests with. My only caveat is that during the "getting to know each other" phase let said person know that you have times when you just need your alone time and total quiet.

In any event, best wishes and kiss the cat for me. (Seriously, cat purring can lower the blood pressure. I know. My cats helped me out of my depression.)



theshytype -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 10:42:21 AM)

I do not know what exactly you would like from having a sub/slave. If your interest is strictly in having quiet time when you need it, that is something that can be found in a vanilla partner. Like any preference, it's something you have to be open and upfront about in the beginning (which sounds like you may have). If they misrepresent themselves, then it just means you'll have to move on. Sometimes, people get into relationships and find out at a later time that there is something they cannot stand, thought they could, or you were misinformed. It happens and sometimes it's not discovered until much later.

From my experience, not everyone understands the need for quiet time or what that exactly means.
And not everyone who needs quiet time have the same requirements as the next person.

My advice is, if you're not interested in any other aspect of BDSM, then perhaps look for a vanilla partner. While subs/slaves can be told not to speak, often times they desire more from a relationship than just speech control.
Be as open and detailed about what it is you need and what it does for you.
Be patient. Like any other preference in a partner, it may take time to find someone who will be compatible with you.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 10:47:31 AM)

[image]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzx6crSE2m1qbtxv8o1_500.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/image/iStock_pipe.jpg[/image]

You are welcome!
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Here I thought this was a fatgirl thread, and a perfect opportunity for me to solicit blowjobs. Fatish, indeed.

We need a fatgirl thread.




thishereboi -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 4:14:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Here I thought this was a fatgirl thread, and a perfect opportunity for me to solicit blowjobs. Fatish, indeed.

We need a fatgirl thread.



Well that would be one way to shut them up, but since the OP doesn't have the right equipment maybe you should volunteer to gag them for her.



kalikshama -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 5:15:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

So can and do subs actually do that? Just like...STFU or fuck off when needed? Is there a word for it so that I know exactly what I'm looking for?

Sure they do.That's what slaves do. They fucking obey. If I need space, I say,"I need some space," And I get it. It's that simple.
As for silence, sure. No problem and completely understandable. I'm not as phobic as you but I need an hour or so of solo down time daily otherwise I start to fray.There's lots of solutions, starting with a simple order, or one can go with gags, bridles,duct tape,hoods combined with bondage. Then there are simple voice and sound restrictions.
Voice restrictions are pretty common...as in slaves aren't to speak unless given permission to do so. It's kinda hot too, turning this smart gal into a mute fucktoy to take and use.
JMHO and all...


Its that simple? That's pretty amazing.

No, it's not that simple. I've been reading Kana and littlewonder's posts for years and it's clear they have a deep, loving relationship with lots of reciprocation. (Which of course is not unique to BDSM.)

quote:

This is why I said that submissives interest me. I can count the number of vanillas I know who would even respond to 'I need space' on one hand.
I posted this because I honestly couldn't think of any way a vanilla partner would obey 'I need space'.

This hasn't been my experience at all. Empathetic people in and out of intimate relationships are generally willing to meet my needs if I ask nicely and reasonably.




After working in a building with toxic mold for two years



kalikshama -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 5:19:30 PM)

quote:

I had asked these questions because I honestly don't even know what having my own space respected even looks like anymore.

I highly recommend doing some work around setting healthy boundaries. This certainly helped me.

quote:

I've already had at least a month of my life wasted and still have nightmares from the toxic space I had.

Perhaps some treatment for PTSD as well.




BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 5:54:57 PM)

Are you people gaslighting or something? So you blatantly ignore everything I write, then make up BS and lie to me about myself and get pissy when I apparently get 'upset' when you troll and spam irreverent crap in this thread and use a thread that was only created to ask a simple question to make personal attacks on the poster? If it's too hard to just answer a question, don't give me anything I didn't ask for. I have the right to refuse something I didn't ask for. I am NOT your sub! From now on if you're not going to stay on topic, please post it somewhere else because I'm not interested. A basic social rule: If someone says they're not interested in something they didn't ask for its fucking rude to force it down their throat anyway. Even I know this.

"Ok, sounds like you tried being submissive to someone with whom you were clearly not compatible"

Please let me know when I said this because I don't even remember posting anything about this even on my profile! How do you know if I have even TRIED subbing? Where did you get that from? Can you please copy-paste it into a reply because I'm having a hard time finding it?

I do agree with you guys on some things here. There is good advice here and it does answer my question but there seems to be a LOT of assumptions and bullshit from no where (some that make me wonder if there is drug and alcohol going around?) and what looks exactly like abelism and unrealistic expectations and the exact same lines that I have heard from the very people that inspired this post!

As I said I have no experience so I'm not exactly 100% BDSM or anything and I have no problem looking for a vanilla partner anyway.

And for future reference, some of my OP again:

"I currently have no experience in kink or the lifestyle or anything like that." No experience. None. At all. Just kink sites nothing else. And be fore you ask. No. Not that or that or even that. Not at that stage yet. Going at my own pace. I think some people suggested that anyway. Though why do some of you suggest 'giving up on BDSM/kink completely'? Don't you like BDSM/kink anymore? What's wrong with trying it even once? Wait, aren't I the vanilla and you the kinky ones? Shouldn't this convo be the other way around? What is logic?

"I probably don't have a 'mute fetish' at all" Nope, mute doesn't turn me on at the moment. But then I don't have any kinky rules or protocols or very many fetishes because I've never TRIED them. Because I'm a beginner?

"If I have not spent all day at home as soon as a walk through the door I NEED to just SIT, usually bumming around on the computer. At this time I NEED mute and STFU from everyone in the house." So I've re-read this twice. I need quiet time when I come home to recover. Usually just for the rest of the day, a whole day or on occasion (RARE RARE RARE RARE) only a week depending on how tired or sick I am. If you can find where in this sentence that I say I need it any other time or for any longer please let me know because I can't find it ^.^ Because some of you seem to believe that no-one gets sick or tired ever and are always on and manic 24/7 (when a large amount of the population literally need illegal substances to do this). We all have to sleep sometimes. And others seem to believe that I just pass out for two years after making a sandwich. If you still believe this and continue to tell me that this is what happens to me you are either telling massive porkies or you can't read at all.

Some of you suggest noise cancelling equipment or ways to completely avoid noise in general....why? Do I need this? Huh? How is that relevant? Oh wait...
"I have no problem with noise itself or talking, just sometimes SOMETIMES I absolutely fucking NEED NEED NEED complete utter silence from everyone."

"For example things like weekend rehearsals for my singing (literally ALL DAY) can fuck me up for days (after a three day rehearsal I couldn't leave the house for a week)"

All the people who for some reason had a problem with this are an absolute insult to my entire singing group who are also absolutely wiped from a rehearsal. Have you been to a rehearsal? Have you been to an all day or three day rehearsal? Do you even sing/act/dance ect at all? Do you know what it is? People who do these activities aren't magic. EVERYONE who does it gets tired! OMG!

"Is it OK for a dominant to DEMAND something like personal space?"

So some said yes. But the majority said no. Look I know I'm completely new to this kink thing but...doesn't the dominant dominate and the submissive submit in some way? How can I learn anything if I don't know WTF is going on??
...the dom is dominant right? and the sub is submissive right? Ok. So I've got that far. So if the dom needs something, even a completely vanilla thing, and then they don't get that from the sub at all...then what? What if the dom isn't happy in life? Because they're fucked up all the time because they never see their own personal space? Is that kink? Is that what D/s is? Or is it something else?

"Because someone told me that demanding something for your own mental health is apparently 'not dominant'."

And then someone told me again in this thread so now I'm even more confused so...

"So what am I then? Is there another name for it that I haven't found on this site?"

No really. Is there a label for what I am or what I'm looking for if I'm not this?

"then I will just demand that any sub I have to be 100% mute"

For all those who had a problem with this I say: Yes. Really. Chances are if they're doing it to me, they do it to everyone else. I've known people who's noise level made me physically ill. I found out quickly from everyone that met them that they did exactly the same to everyone else. I mean you never know if you tell not just a shouter but a SHOOOOUUUUUTTTTEEERRR to be 100% mute some vanilla people might thank you for it. Because some vanillas fucking hate far to much noise too.
But really, why should a vanilla put up with it from a partner and why should a dominant with a sub like this not do anything about it?
What if nothing else works? (And believe me in some situations for me, nothing worked, for real)

Yes I know I should take time and be careful choosing the right person for me. But that's just words. And I've heard it before. And it was very similar words that forced the 40-year-old child in my life that inspired this post! It is the same words that are told to domestic violence and rape victims every day! So can you please give me a little more than that? Just dumping someone isn't a magic wand that will instantly end all noise. There are probably lots of situations where people continues to be in ones life and even house long after they've been dumped.

P.S

I'm a lazy bugger so if you find it helpful try googleing 'sometimes' and 'some' ect.
I also don't tolerate lies about me to my face anymore because I got enough of those from SHOUTERS, energy wasters and personal space deniers.



kalikshama -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:06:09 PM)

I had to look up "ableism." After working in a building with toxic mold, I developed chemical and environmental sensitivities, and have been first struggling and now coping with this for 14 years. I never felt marginalized. It helped that I'd gotten a SPECT brain scan that was a great rebuttal to those who tried to dismiss me with the "all in your head" comments.

Initially, walking down the laundry detergent aisle in the supermarket would make me sick for hours. I slept in a tent for two years, including a winter and a half in upstate New York - during the first winter we had four snow storms with each over two feet of snow. I slept outside in this tent during temperatures that got down to 7 degrees Fahrenheit (-13 degrees C). Trudging through the snow bothered me more than the cold, lol. The next winter my tent and I went to Costa Rica for two months, where I met new challenges like scorpions.

I tried all sorts of things to assist with my recovery. Carolyn Myss's Why People Don't Heal and How They Can was very helpful. But most helpful was my positive attitude, determination to get better and not be defined by my illness. I got really good at setting boundaries and learning to say No. And also to recognize when I felt a meltdown coming on and to slow down and take care of myself.

All of my romantic partners were willing to make accommodations for me like not wearing cologne and switching deodorants, shampoos, and laundry detergents. (As I am much better now, I didn't need to ask my current partner to change personal care products.) BTW - I'm submissive.

Some employers were willing to accommodate me. The ones who weren't, I left, without rancor. Without much effort, I managed to find one employer who was sensitive to fragrance and one who was in the middle of mold legislation.

Instead of focusing on the jobs I lost, I am grateful for the one I have now, which allows for great quality of life. Instead of focusing on losing my marriage, I am grateful for the relationship I am in now, which is far more emotionally and sexually satisfying. The past 14 years have been difficult and tumultuous, but they made me me, and I like who and where I am.



VideoAdminRho -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:10:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon
From now on if you're not going to stay on topic, please post it somewhere else because I'm not interested. A basic social rule: If someone says they're not interested in something they didn't ask for its fucking rude to force it down their throat anyway. Even I know this.


This is considered normal thread drift of a subject within the discussion forums and is therefore acceptable. Posters may not determine who may or may not post on a thread. If you don't find the information helpful, ignore the post, but someone else may find what has been written to be helpful.



angelikaJ -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:22:47 PM)

Some people said yes.
Some people said no.
Quite a few people said you would not need a power exchange based relationship to have an accommodating partner.


It may not be what your experience has been but it is a common enough experience to consider.




TNDommeK -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:27:31 PM)

Wow, ok.
First let me answer your OP.
I'm with Kana on this one. You can tell a slave to do what you like. I have had slaves that I have put speech restrictions on. I enjoy it.

Now onto the rest....people have given you great feedback. Seriously! I say this bc I know what some posters are capable of and I'd say this thread was very polite and informative. So you might not like what they have to say or it might not validate what you wanted to hear, but it was helpful.

So relax and just move on with your thread or other questions.



BurntKitty -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 6:29:19 PM)

You want to make sure you get quiet time when you get home? Live by yourself. I was the one who suggested soundproofing as It seemed from your comments that you were sensitive to all noise. Don't sound proof your home then. I really don't care, I was suggesting it to be helpful.

But you don't need to live with someone and tell them to shut up if you live alone. If you have no other human occupants and you still wander through your home with your shut the fuck up comments, well I'll leave it there.

Just live alone.



angelikaJ -> RE: Do you have rules/fatish/whatever for mute/space? (10/7/2013 7:14:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

I have posted this on another site, but was fucked over before I could get an answer.

I currently have no experience in kink or the lifestyle or anything like that.

Is there such thing as a mute kink or something like that? Do dominants and/or submissive have a rule for silence/personal space ect? Is there such thing as some kind of STFU safe word or something and does anyone use it? What do dominants do to get these things? I'm fairly desperate to find out before I start looking.


Have you even ordered a sub to be mute or something? Subs, have you had any expectation of that? How did you do it?

Yes, at times my Master has ordered me to be quiet.
And I was.
But very little had to do with the fact that He is [my] Master.
Mostly it had to do with the fact that I love Him and enjoy making Him happy.

I have some interest in things like 'mute' because I have issues with noise/space/energy wasting. I probably don't have a 'mute fetish' at all but at times I feel I need to force myself to develop one for my own survival. In such situations I myself suddenly become mute (nothing wrong with my throat or vocal chords or anything I just literally have nothing to put through them, let alone use them)

I live alone for a number of reasons and this is one of them. If I have not spent all day at home as soon as a walk through the door I NEED to just SIT, usually bumming around on the computer. At this time I NEED mute and STFU from everyone in the house. I say this because I have had downright abusive experiences with this. I once had a 40-year-old child forced into my house who drove me to the point that every noise nearly made me vomit! I have no problem with noise itself or talking, just sometimes I absolutely fucking NEED NEED NEED complete utter silence from everyone. And people who are completely incapable of talking let alone conversation apart from SHOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUTTTTIIIIIIINNNNGGGGGG ALL. FUCKING. DAY. are a total hard limit for me.

Shouting all day would be a hard limit for most people.

For example things like weekend rehearsals for my singing (literally ALL DAY) can fuck me up for days (after a three day rehearsal I couldn't leave the house for a week). So being denied the basic right to just fucking SIT the minute I get home is out of the question. If I have fuck all energy, why should even more be wasted? I have zero tolerance for energy wasters.

So can and do subs actually do that? Just like...STFU or fuck off when needed? Is there a word for it so that I know exactly what I'm looking for?

Yes, there is a word for it: respect.
Respecting the needs of your partners.

I'm one of those apparently rare women that actually want to GET something out of their relationship and to have their on hobbies and interests that don't exist just to serve someone else. So the concept of this magical person that apparently wants to do things I ask them to got me really interested. So I was hoping that included getting stuff like my own personal space.

So is this for real? Is it OK for a dominant to DEMAND something like personal space? Because someone told me that demanding something for your own mental health is apparently 'not dominant'. So what am I then? Is there another name for it that I haven't found on this site?

People demand things of their partners all the time for mental or physical health.
But really, why be with someone when you have to force an issue with demands.
D/s or vanilla, relationships work much better when there are compatible partners.


And if this magical free personal space thing doesn't exist and that subs are supposed to SHOOOOOOOUUUUUUTTTT about what flavor muffin they had for tea three weeks ago when your trying to read or fucking sleep, then I will just demand that any sub I have to be 100% mute, even in their vanilla life. Is that ok? Can that be done? I would rather have a mute sub than one that makes me vomit at every noise. I would rather have a mute sub than one that wastes my energy. I would rather have a mute sub than one who puts my mental health at risk.

Personal space does exist.
But (as you know)having someone say they understand what personal space is is no guarantee that they do, or that their definition matches yours, or even that they are being honest with you when they answer

So I just want to know before I give up completely and buy a puppy. They're morons compared to humans yet training them to do something that's apparently 'too hard' like STFU is fucking EASY!!!


You asked if you could have a magical being who would do as you asked/DEMANDED.
And you can... but there is a catch: chances are it wouldn't start out that way from square 1.
Power dynamic based relationships take time to develop to reach their full potential.
Mine is over 4 years old and it is still developing.

How patient can you be while you train your sub to be quiet when you need him/her to... and your sub would have to be patient as well as you grow into being the person that is worthy of being a partner who is in charge of everything?



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