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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown.

Did you mean to say that in previous shutdowns, furloughed workers weren't assured of getting back pay until after the shutdown while this time they are being assured of getting back pay before the shutdown is over?

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The only problem with being assured of back pay, regardless of when it occurs, is that it is still back pay. That is, unless you have the savings to cover the "shut down," you're going to be in a bind until the shutdown is over.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown.

The effect? Well, with the pay up in the air, there was pressure to cut a deal. Now, there's little pain and the pressure's off. The shutdown could drag out a while.

Personally, I feel it favors the Republicans. While their primary goal was to cripple Obamacare (which I don't see happening), there was a secondary goal to show that a shut-down government isn't that bad. I.e., that the government could stand to be cut.

Why did it happen like this? I heard a rumor that Boehner's Facebook page got swamped with angry messages from federal employees. I suspect that's why.

The crazy thing is that we are now not receiving services even though we will be paying for them anyway. This makes the philosophy of the shutdown ridiculous.

I'm not sure of the fallout. I suspect that the GOP Tea Party folks will be livid at this, and will urge their GOP Reps to stand firmer on the shutdown fight as a result. Obama OTOH is under no pressure whatsoever as long as the public blames the GOP for the shutdown. The newly vacationing federal workers might even push subtly for an extended shutdown.

I expect that the fight will now shift to the court of public opinion. If Obama decides to use his social networks to push his sound bites out (requesting that his followers speak to the undecideds), it should be devastating.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

"favors the Republicans"

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ORIGINAL: RacerJim

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them.

Truth be told, the one trying to prove his inane point is the one who, as an Illinois State Senator proclaimed the U.S. Constitution an inherently flawed document, then as the Democratic Party nominee for POTUS in 2008 that he intended to fundamentally transform the United States of America and then as POTUS in 2009 that all military personnel (Active Duty, Retired, and Veterans) and their families should pay for their healthcare -- including Wounded Warriors. It's all rather DISHONORABLE and DISPICABLE. It's just a ideological narcissistic game to Obama.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59
When has a democrat-controlled H of Rs ever closed down the federal government trying to get things they didn`t or couldn`t through the democratic process?
It`s just plain ridiculous.

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The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure. But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the government.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Steven,

This has all only ever been about the court of public opinion on botht the democrat and republican sides.

Obama's second term was dead in the water. Underwater on popularity, and with a dedicated republican opposition that would kill anything in the house and filibuster it in the senate.

He needed and wanted to provoke a confrontation with the republicans in order to unite and fire up his side, so he had some hope of policy initiatives happening on his side. Additionally, to avoid crushing defeat in the midterms.

Cook had forecast what - the loss of 5 senate seats and a dozen house seats?

So conventional wisdom is that the democrats win by even having this fight.

Republicans may lose, but it is my hope that if they fall on their swords, at least they fall on their swords to effect.

However, Karl Rove may well be right. The smart thing to do would be to not defund anything and vote down after the 2014 election.

Being entrenched, in power as the democrats are, is always an advantage. The tea partiers are passionate and inexperienced. They have eaten at the mainstream republicans that would have seasoned them.

In my opinion, obama deliberately provoked a shutdown, and the tea party was too willing and too unseasoned to not come to the dance. Now the two parties have to dance this dance and see how it plays out in the court of national opinion.

But by bringing it to that court, is already a win for the democrat, and its an arena they do well in.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

To prove some kind of inane point. It's all rather stupid. It's just a game to them.

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I can guarantee the federal workers have no desire whatsoever to extend their "paid vacation". They are eager to get back to work and are angry that they are not working, even if they are getting paid.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This means that the workers are getting an unscheduled free vacation. Note that in all previous shutdowns, federal workers got paid for missed time AFTER the shutdown was over. Here, they're assured of pay DURING the shutdown.

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The crazy thing is that we are now not receiving services even though we will be paying for them anyway. This makes the philosophy of the shutdown ridiculous.