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U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’s Fall - 10/7/2013 4:58:57 AM   
Owner59


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The whacko-righties and their propagandists at fox are calling these dire warnings from the administration and financial analysts "scare tactics".


It goes from ridiculous to sublime when the hostage takers are pointing fingers, accusing others of using scare tactics.



http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-10-06/a-u-dot-s-dot-default-seen-as-unprecedented-catastrophe-dwarfing-lehman



Anyone who remembers the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. little more than five years ago knows what a global financial disaster is. A U.S. government default, just weeks away if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling as it now threatens to do, will be an economic calamity like none the world has ever seen.

Failure by the world’s largest borrower to pay its debt -- unprecedented in modern history -- will devastate stock markets from Brazil to Zurich, halt a $5 trillion lending mechanism for investors who rely on Treasuries, blow up borrowing costs for billions of people and companies, ravage the dollar and throw the U.S. and world economies into a recession that probably would become a depression. Among the dozens of money managers, economists, bankers, traders and former government officials interviewed for this story, few view a U.S. default as anything but a financial apocalypse.

The $12 trillion of outstanding government debt is 23 times the $517 billion Lehman owed when it filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2008. As politicians butt heads over raising the debt ceiling, executives from Berkshire Hathaway Inc.’s Warren Buffett to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s Lloyd C. Blankfein have warned that going over the edge would be catastrophic.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/7/2013 4:59:15 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:17:37 AM   
Kirata


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The U.S. Debt Ceiling Fallacy: Agreement Or Not, There Will Be No Default

Default? Under Obama, Tax Revenues Have Exceeded Combined Costs

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:22:45 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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Stop borrowing against our future and pass balanced budgets like we did when President sat down with the Republican Congress.

It seems easy enough to me.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:23:30 AM   
Owner59


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John Boehner: 'The Path We're On' Leads To Default


"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that the country was on a path toward default if President Barack Obama continues to refuse to negotiate over raising the debt limit."


Do you read the news?


Sounds to me like the guy holding the gun means business.


But let`s argue that your party`s hostage takers are just bluffing....


Why even go there and put us at risk this way.....to ANY extent?!


Plus I would like it if you republicans would stop conflating the debt sieling fight with the ACA/shutdown fight. It`s dishonest.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/7/2013 5:25:16 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:25:04 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that the country was on a path toward default if President Barack Obama continues to refuse to negotiate over raising the debt limit."

Do you read the news?

Do you believe politicians?

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:25:15 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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Oh.... and either treat the corporation like The People a d force Obama Care on them now or allow The People to delay the individual mandate until the corporations have to conply in 2015.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:29:03 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Stop borrowing against our future and pass balanced budgets like we did when President sat down with the Republican Congress.

It seems easy enough to me.



Says the party that ruined our economy and threw trillions of tax dollars down a rat hole.



This is like the degenerate gambler husband telling his wife and kids they`ll have to eat less because he blew all their money.....





_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:31:53 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Oh.... and either treat the corporation like The People a d force Obama Care on them now or allow The People to delay the individual mandate until the corporations have to conply in 2015.


That our defensive cons can`t seem to stay on topics tells me they have little to say about their party being about to destroy our economy..... again....


Thanks for caring fdd...

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:33:03 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that the country was on a path toward default if President Barack Obama continues to refuse to negotiate over raising the debt limit."

Do you read the news?

Do you believe politicians?

K.




I believe your party has the ability and willingness to harm America, to get what THEY want.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:51:25 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that the country was on a path toward default if President Barack Obama continues to refuse to negotiate over raising the debt limit."

Do you read the news?

Do you believe politicians?

K.




I believe your party has the ability and willingness to harm America, to get what THEY want.


"I will not negotiate." -- Barack Hussein Obama
"NO" -- Harry Reid

You are entitled to believe what you want but you are not entitled to your own facts.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:54:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I believe your party has the ability and willingness to harm America, to get what THEY want.

Lose the "your party" shit. We've danced around that tree before. You know better. As to the substance of your comment, both parties believe that about each other. So I'm not inclined to give much credit to partisan expressions of opinion from either side.

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 5:59:43 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

John Boehner: 'The Path We're On' Leads To Default


"House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that the country was on a path toward default if President Barack Obama continues to refuse to negotiate over raising the debt limit."


Do you read the news?


Sounds to me like the guy holding the gun means business.


But let`s argue that your party`s hostage takers are just bluffing....


Why even go there and put us at risk this way.....to ANY extent?!


Plus I would like it if you republicans would stop conflating the debt sieling fight with the ACA/shutdown fight. It`s dishonest.




Pffft. It's just puffery. Boehner's been heard saying that he won't permit the debt ceiling to not be raised.

It's obvious what would happen. Foreign capital would flee. We'd never be able to meet our obligations unless we hiked taxes sharply (which ain't gonna happen), or we started printing money like mad. Hyperinflation, and those on fixed incomes and those with big savings (i.e., the AARP crowd) would start recall petitions right and left.

I haven't heard anyone mixing the two fights, although I would be willing to bet that 90%+ of the US public doesn't understand the difference.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 6:26:53 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Stop borrowing against our future and pass balanced budgets like we did when President sat down with the Republican Congress.

It seems easy enough to me.



The most important achievement in political economy in the Clinton yeas was reducing the federal deficit. Just before his inauguration Clinton held an economic summit in Little Rock, at which academic, business executives, and financiers one after another moaned about how huge federal borrowing to cover debt was making capital too expensive to allow industry to grow. One year later Clinton had rammed through a tax-and -budget bill that turned a chronic deficit into a surplus.

The anti-deficit drive was controversial within the Democratic Party, because Clinton seemed to be truckling to financial markets rather than spending more for education and health. It was bitterly resisted by the Republicans; every single Republican member of Congress voted against the new taxes in the plan. It was an enormous gamble on Clinton's part: he had Al Gore cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate. The historical judgment has to be that it paid off, for Clinton, and, of vastly more importance, for the country.

--James Fallows

But two things stick out so far from the normal that they will probably be remembered no matter what happens. One of them is the sheer insensate virulence of his critics. If size can be measured by the lip-frothing frustration of one's enemies, Clinton is right up there with Moby-Dick. The other is the five-minute standing ovation Clinton received at the UN at the height of the Monica madness. The applause couldn't all have been for adultery--not even the applause from the French Ambassador.

And even if, as his critics maintain, its was all a trick both at home and abroad, the trick had worked wonderfully well. But he couldn't have gotten all five minutes without Kenneth Starr.


James Fallows

--------

I honestly wish you Right Wingers would stop living in the fantasy world reflected by your own post here. Not only did Clinton raise taxes, he cut military spending. Republicans tried to impeach him, and opposed and criticized him at every turn.

In Contrast to Clinton, BUSH started two ill conceived / mismanaged wars and cut taxes. Where was the Tea Party Insurgence during this ruinous era?

In Contrast to Clinton, Obama had to contend with the great recession and still contends with an economic demand problem created in large measure by the skewed distribution of the BUSH tax cuts (which did not help the economy, BTW.)

Had the Tea Party Caucus been in the Congress in 2008, the US and world economies would have melted down b/c TARP would have been DOA. Your 401(k) would be half to a quarter of what' its worth today and you very well might have lost your job and house as well. All this would have happened based on rigid, ideological opposition to government and a fantastic view of the free market.

-------




< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/7/2013 6:36:50 AM >

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 6:39:25 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
One of them is the sheer insensate virulence of his critics. If size can be measured by the lip-frothing frustration of one's enemies, Clinton is right up there with Moby-Dick.



I assume this was written prior to the Obama Presidency, then.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 11:28:24 AM   
papassion


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Does anyone think we can just raise the debt limit and everyone will live happily ever after? That just raising the debt limit will somehow skirt the laws of finance, and countries will continue to lend us money, knowing they will never get it back? And if they don't lend us money, we can just print money out of thin air indefinitely with no problems?

As long as the US Dollar is the world currency, we are golden. Countries realize Obama does not live in the real world and are dropping their their US holdings. US Treasury figures show Russia's holdings of American debt fell from 176.3 billion in October 2010 to 125.4 billion in April 2011. China is following the same pattern, NO LONGER BUYING dollars, but favoring the euros instead. Premier Wen Jiaboa visited Germany for the first ever German-Chinese joint cabinet meeting on June 27, where he said he will continue to back purchases of European debt. Beijing knows holding euros is risky, but clearly sees that that holding dollars is FAR RISKIER. Watch for more nations to dump dollars as the US's economic fissures grow deeper. (looks like foreign countries don't look thru our Liberal's rose colored glasses)

In January, Jin Liqun, chairman of the china Investment Corp warned america that America's money printing machine will have to slow down for people to have full confidence in the dollar. If America isn't careful, China could strip the dollar of that coveted status. China isn't alone preparing for the post dollar world. In March, China joined with Brazil. Russia, India and South Africa to create a BRICS bank to make each nation less reliant on the US dollar.

Most Americans have no idea an economic war is being waged, but they soon will. America risks awaking to the sounds of riots, images of frantic bankers and empty store shelves. and to newspaper headlines calling today, "the day the dollar died."

This has nothing to do with a potential shutdown. This is all due to Liberal thinking to give everybody, everything, the hell with the cost!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 11:34:46 AM   
mnottertail


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Yet the republicans are the purse strings, so.............the cant sort of doesnt make sense.

If you check the figures anyhow, 10 Trillion of our debt is held by the citizenry and institutional holdings. So 2/3rds of it is on our back.

China is scared of teabaggers and their cretinism.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34314.pdf

and your other figures are asswipe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-18/putin-slams-u-s-parasite-after-1-600-jump-in-russia-holdings.html

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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 12:01:23 PM   
papassion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet the republicans are the purse strings, so.............the cant sort of doesnt make sense.

If you check the figures anyhow, 10 Trillion of our debt is held by the citizenry and institutional holdings. So 2/3rds of it is on our back.

China is scared of teabaggers and their cretinism.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34314.pdf

and your other figures are asswipe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-18/putin-slams-u-s-parasite-after-1-600-jump-in-russia-holdings.html


The husband, (congress) has to pay the bills. The spendthrift wife (Obama administration) runs up the bills.

Yeah, other countries are afraid teabaggers will force the government to live within their means. That makes sense!

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 12:06:19 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:


The husband, (congress) has to pay the bills. The spendthrift wife (Obama administration) runs up the bills.


Nope, not at all, the congress establishes spending and by statute tells Executive what and how much he will spend on. He has little or no say in any of it.

quote:


Yeah, other countries are afraid teabaggers will force the government to live within their means. That makes sense!


That is pure horseshit, from the articles, that wasn't what they were afraid of, they were afraid of the innumeracy and ineptitude in Teabagger's whole lack of economics knowledge and policy.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 12:08:56 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Does anyone think we can just raise the debt limit and everyone will live happily ever after? That just raising the debt limit will somehow skirt the laws of finance, and countries will continue to lend us money, knowing they will never get it back? And if they don't lend us money, we can just print money out of thin air indefinitely with no problems?


You seem to be confused. Raising the debt limit guarantees that those holding our debt will get their money. Failing to do so will result in our bonds going into default.

(in reply to papassion)
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RE: U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman’... - 10/7/2013 12:17:58 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet the republicans are the purse strings, so.............the cant sort of doesnt make sense.

If you check the figures anyhow, 10 Trillion of our debt is held by the citizenry and institutional holdings. So 2/3rds of it is on our back.

China is scared of teabaggers and their cretinism.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34314.pdf

and your other figures are asswipe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-18/putin-slams-u-s-parasite-after-1-600-jump-in-russia-holdings.html


The husband, (congress) has to pay the bills. The spendthrift wife (Obama administration) runs up the bills.

Yeah, other countries are afraid teabaggers will force the government to live within their means. That makes sense!



Sorry but the H of Rs creates the budget and works with the other branches to come to a consensus.They control the money.

Any money spent,THEY must agree to.

It`s kinda dishonest to say otherwise.

And when I say "works with" I don`t mean hostage negotiations....


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/7/2013 12:18:05 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to papassion)
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