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ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Two cavemen worlds apart invents the wheel. Eventually each society evolves and goes out into space...(or on the internet)...and finally meet. One leather caveman says, "We invented the wheel first. You have to learn our secret knock code and earn our decoder ring if you're going to use the wheel in any way, shape or form, okay? Your wheel sizes are not labeled correctly, here, use our standard tape measure because you're doing it all wrong."

Former cave dude from the non-aligned world says, "No thanks. We've invented the wheel just fine without your help. If your size and shape labels work for you, that's great. We prefer how WE handle our own wheels...and btw, our planetary system spins around just fine too, so...thanks for your offer to fix us but we're doing fine on our own."

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who decides on someone’s label? The person or the community? Do other people tell you what you are or do you get to tell them?

There is more than one community within the BDSM umbrella, and I believe that each community would decide if you were a zebra trying to pass yourself off as a lion. Within a Gorean community, I doubt labeling myself a Mistress who owns a slave would go over well. I have an uncle in Ohio and several other male relatives who are into the Christian male dominance thing, and my being in a relationship where I'm head of household doesn't go over well. Within leather...it was a dream I once had but the train has long since left the station. I'm almost 50, and would not uncollar my slave so I could go learn from the bottom up how to be a leather Master. Seeing me in a submissive role to anyone, even if just as a learning experience, would crush bo's spirit. He would see it as abusive, even if I assured him it wasn't. Driving him crazy and losing what we have...is not worth it. I will have to learn more on my own terms, at a pace that will not harm either of us.

So...we have to find out for ourselves who we are and where we fit into the lifestyle. The others within our BDSM communities...will also decide for themselves if they think we have labeled ourselves correctly. I like labels, because they give us a good starting point and can prevent misunderstandings, and anger and non-consensual violence.

I've already had someone get all judgmental on my boy at a low time in his life, saying that he wasn't really a slave. I get tired of all the "you must be a perfect submissive, never angry at life or at your owner or else you're not a real slave" attitude that goes around, and my protective instincts make me want to rip the offender a new ass.

I didn't respect the "slave" friend of his that attacked bo's slavehood. I judged the now ex-friend as a judgmental attention whore slave wannabe, with a huge side order of "Do me!" I've seen similar things going on in the groups we belong to, where folks don't agree on labels, whether self given or community given. Deciding who has mastered certain aspects of play is easy...compared with judging who is capable of mastering...the right human being.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Two cavemen worlds apart invents the wheel. Eventually each society evolves and goes out into space...(or on the internet)...and finally meet. One leather caveman says, "We invented the wheel first. You have to learn our secret knock code and earn our decoder ring if you're going to use the wheel in any way, shape or form, okay? Your wheel sizes are not labeled correctly, here, use our standard tape measure because you're doing it all wrong."

Former cave dude from the non-aligned world says, "No thanks. We've invented the wheel just fine without your help. If your size and shape labels work for you, that's great. We prefer how WE handle our own wheels...and btw, our planetary system spins around just fine too, so...thanks for your offer to fix us but we're doing fine on our own."

Except that it isn't quite correct.

While a number of BDSM folks rail about how they "did just fine on their own," it's not really the case. It was the leather community that opened certain doors that the BDSM community benefited from. Whether that be fighting to open clubs, starting cons for educational opportunities, and even often leather folks who have started groups that have welcomed all kinky folks. MAsT most certainly has leather roots and wouldn't exist if it hadn't been started by leathermen.

Most people want to ignore it, but the leather community has contributed a lot to the BDSM community.

I do see your point, LP, and I'm sure that many people who have benefited from leather people paving the way for greater acceptance and education, etc., wouldn't feel like they are separate and self-educated, away from the leather community.

Finding a MAsT group, after being at least eight years without any sign of leather people, has been nice. However, I have to drive three hours (on the toll freeway) each way to get there. If my starting point wasn't NOW from bo's house, only an hour and a half each way to MAsT, and if he wasn't paying for the gas...there is no way I would be able to attend.

Mainly I've been going...to show my support and to help the community get bigger. We can only count on one other couple being there, the host and his slave. On an average meetup, two other people show up. If we're very lucky, four others...for a grand total of eight.

Looking at the people listed in my town or nearby on CM's other side, it may seem like a lot of people are active in the r/t community. Hah. Yeah, for cybering or the occasional one on one session. Actually, I don't believe I've ever topped anyone from my own town. Neighboring towns, yes. From far far away, hell yes. Munches can't stay open for long without folding up. To my knowledge, there has never been a munch group in my county within the past ten years.

When I go to play parties...they are private parties. There are no BDSM groups that have dungeons and take responsibility for educating newbies. I haven't seen any benefits in my area, and I can only talk about my own personal experience. I've never been to a convention, never been to a dungeon. The only leather people I've met in r/t or known from online have been from CM and Fet, and yes, I have been envious of the places you've been and the things you have seen. None of the people I've met in my town, ones who visited me from neighboring towns or other states have had any r/t exposure to the leather community. Except for one person. A lady who met up with bo and I at a restaurant...and yelled out the word "VAGINA!" at least four dozen times.

You leather folk that I see online are the ones that represent the leather community to us hillbillies and rednecks stranded in the butt end of the universe. I also have to say again...that leather people had no part of helping me learn my way in BDSM and D/s. Until possibly recently, in the past two years.

MAsT groups cannot throw play parties to educate new members about BDSM safeties or else they would lose their charter.

I had to beg and plead at random, semi-appropriate times so that others in the Charleston and Cross Lanes area would organize and decide to give a demonstration. I've participated in a rope demo twice...and my dyslexia conquers all. I've been using restraints these past ten years and find some rope work hawt, but it's the end result I find arousing, not the grunt work. Especially when I mess up and my work is uneven. We haven't bought our own ropes yet and finances won't allow it for at least until after the holidays.

Part of one of the demos I saw was for electrical safeties. This was before we bought our own e-stim. I would like see what kinky others would do with one of these that we haven't discovered on our own yet. The regular flogging demo...I myself could have given it, BUT...being on my own all these years has given me something of a social phobia. I'm trying to get more comfortable with watching others do their thing, as well as trying to get used to having others watch while I scene. Back to the flogging thing. I am separating normal flogging, that I am used to, from Florentine demos. I saw someone (leather) demonstrating Florentine and it totally blew me away. She was AWESOME. So was the time I watched her use a whip. In ten years...I've only been able to see things that were way beyond my skill level twice. (If it were possible, I'd be watching stuff like this every weekend.)

In areas of the USA where leather communities have influence...yay. I envy them. I envy the passing on of skills. I envy them for having the freedom to open up clubs and have dungeons, because in my area...this is one of the most ignorant, bigoted and proud of it, areas of the bible belt. My slave is called "faggot" and pervert and is sometimes treated like sh*t by total strangers...and if they could get away with dragging him behind some pickup truck till he was dead, some drunken asshat would. (Nobody was surprised when that private, members only club, a titty bar, lol, that was too nearby to four churches burnt to the ground.)

All the freedoms leather people have worked so hard for, IMHO, haven't reached the four corners of the earth yet. I'm going to get too old to lift a flogger and will probably be dead before any significant leather community is established in my area of WV.

I guess I've been on my own for two long. If someone leather educates others and says, "In leather, we do it this way. These labels are very precise and mean this to us" I'd be standing up clapping my hands. It's when I feel any "this is THE right way" for the entire community, and especially the "we invented sadism/masochism/owner/property and you're doing it wrong"...um, that's when I growl softly under my breath.

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ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I decide. And I have decided the following:

I am a Martian....

TigressLily, you're cold as ice. You're willing to sacrifice our love....

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact



People get to define themselves the way that they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the community is going to agree with that definition. I think it's also going to depend on which "community" that people are talking about. I find more often that the supposed "online community" is more likely to agree with any self imposed label that a person gives themselves. The "I'm a brand new Master with no experience" is more likely to get a pass on certain message boards. The same person walking into a leather event with the same proclamation isn't going to have the same kind of agreement with that statement. I've seen similar reactions happen on the Gorean forum when a male posts that he is a brand new Master, but he's never read a book.

Even in the mix that is the real life BDSM community, somebody coming to their first event, declaring their brand new Master status, but has no experience doesn't really go over very well. They do get welcomed, but there is also some eye rolling and whispers of "oh, great, another one who thinks they know what they are doing because they read stuff on the internet."

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ORIGINAL: AdorkableAiley
What say you?

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: AdorkableAiley
What say you?

The least secure person decides.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

A person can label himself anyway that he wants! I will still Label him a prick!

Oh, so that's why it's green.

Allegedly.

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ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I'm a Martian prick.