quote:

I do know without a doubt that it will not end well if we never address it, and that addressing it will be painful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

Using MN's number, revenue is 5x that of interest on the debt. Default is not on the table, at least not yet. It would take interest rates rising to perhaps 8%+ (and subsequent econ alterations due to that) the threat could be real. Rates are at historical lows.

The problem is expanding unfunded liabilities (discretionary spending). Currently there is sufficient revenue to pay contractual obligations. One must note that SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc ARE NOT contractual obligations. They are but governmental promises. That is a distinction with teeth.

Currently, and I'm not going to pull up the date, we'd have to have a massive pull back on governmental promises. Such includes pensions, SS, Medicare, etc. The government is trapped in that it promised champagne over the last few decades and it's looking more like beer.

Simply put, one cannot continually deficit (add to the debt) spend without, one day, paying the piper. What most people do not realize is that the piper is calling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I do know without a doubt that it will not end well if we never address it, and that addressing it will be painful.

I agree on both points.

I'm not sure, though, that frantic sashing on the brink of default is the best approach. Of course, as I type that, I do realize that crisis seems to be what it takes to get us to focus on hard realities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

Using MN's number, revenue is 5x that of interest on the debt. Default is not on the table, at least not yet. It would take interest rates rising to perhaps 8%+ (and subsequent econ alterations due to that) the threat could be real. Rates are at historical lows.

The problem is expanding unfunded liabilities (discretionary spending). Currently there is sufficient revenue to pay contractual obligations. One must note that SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc ARE NOT contractual obligations. They are but governmental promises. That is a distinction with teeth.

Currently, and I'm not going to pull up the date, we'd have to have a massive pull back on governmental promises. Such includes pensions, SS, Medicare, etc. The government is trapped in that it promised champagne over the last few decades and it's looking more like beer.

Simply put, one cannot continually deficit (add to the debt) spend without, one day, paying the piper. What most people do not realize is that the piper is calling.

I dare you to switch places with me and then we'll see if you so blithely condemn yourself to a painful death.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

But how are we going to solve this problem if, when things are swimming along, no one will even consider addressing it? And when we're in the ninth hour, no one wants to risk stirring the pot?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

Using MN's number, revenue is 5x that of interest on the debt. Default is not on the table, at least not yet. It would take interest rates rising to perhaps 8%+ (and subsequent econ alterations due to that) the threat could be real. Rates are at historical lows.

The problem is expanding unfunded liabilities (discretionary spending). Currently there is sufficient revenue to pay contractual obligations. One must note that SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc ARE NOT contractual obligations. They are but governmental promises. That is a distinction with teeth.

Currently, and I'm not going to pull up the date, we'd have to have a massive pull back on governmental promises. Such includes pensions, SS, Medicare, etc. The government is trapped in that it promised champagne over the last few decades and it's looking more like beer.

Simply put, one cannot continually deficit (add to the debt) spend without, one day, paying the piper. What most people do not realize is that the piper is calling.

I dare you to switch places with me and then we'll see if you so blithely condemn yourself to a painful death.

Look ----- DUDE !!!!! - I don't like it anymore than you !! ... but it is what it is! THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM!

It's going to smack you upside the head whether you like it or not! That's the fucking problem !!!!

Sad to say, the piper can't care less about you, me, or the man in the Moon.

I pulled your explicative. For good reason!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

But how are we going to solve this problem if, when things are swimming along, no one will even consider addressing it? And when we're in the ninth hour, no one wants to risk stirring the pot?

The problem is being addressed. The deficit has shrunk dramatically in the last 5 years. What money we are borrowing is at interest rates that are often, once you take into account the inflation rate over the life of the bond, negative.

What we need is tax increases on the top earners and a drastic reduction in military and intelligence spending. We should do that slowly to limit the shocks to the economy and do some deficit spending now to do things, like fixing bridges, that help the economy in the long run.

Then we need to address education loan debt which is looking like the next bubble. As a start the feds should make no more student loans to unaccredited for profit "schools."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

But how are we going to solve this problem if, when things are swimming along, no one will even consider addressing it? And when we're in the ninth hour, no one wants to risk stirring the pot?

The problem is being addressed. The deficit has shrunk dramatically in the last 5 years. What money we are borrowing is at interest rates that are often, once you take into account the inflation rate over the life of the bond, negative.

What we need is tax increases on the top earners and a drastic reduction in military and intelligence spending. We should do that slowly to limit the shocks to the economy and do some deficit spending now to do things, like fixing bridges, that help the economy in the long run.

Then we need to address education loan debt which is looking like the next bubble. As a start the feds should make no more student loans to unaccredited for profit "schools."

So the deficit has shrunk dramatically. Is the debt being paid down? Or is it just not rising as fast? Which?

quote:

Near 50% of the population is on SNAP.

quote:

SSDI is wrought with fraud. It's the new unemployment insurance.

quote:

What will happen when interest rates begin to rise, which eventually they shall do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

So the deficit has shrunk dramatically. Is the debt being paid down? Or is it just not rising as fast? Which?

Not rising as fast which is a start.


Wrong. 47 million people are on SNAP. there are around 360 million people in this country so it is more like 12%

quote:

yachtie - SSDI is wrought with fraud. It's the new unemployment insurance.

Wrong again. SSDI is very difficult to get and anything that does not involve an incontrovertible diagnosis backed up by objective testing can take years to qualify for and most people who apply are still turned away at some point in the process. You believe to much shit from the echo chamber.


That is a good thing, as long as it is modest, if you're really worried about the debt and deficit.

Please always apply this standard, if it is a conservative source check the facts since the echo chamber simply makes shit up all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

Using MN's number, revenue is 5x that of interest on the debt. Default is not on the table, at least not yet. It would take interest rates rising to perhaps 8%+ (and subsequent econ alterations due to that) the threat could be real. Rates are at historical lows.

The problem is expanding unfunded liabilities (discretionary spending). Currently there is sufficient revenue to pay contractual obligations. One must note that SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc ARE NOT contractual obligations. They are but governmental promises. That is a distinction with teeth.

Currently, and I'm not going to pull up the date, we'd have to have a massive pull back on governmental promises. Such includes pensions, SS, Medicare, etc. The government is trapped in that it promised champagne over the last few decades and it's looking more like beer.

Simply put, one cannot continually deficit (add to the debt) spend without, one day, paying the piper. What most people do not realize is that the piper is calling.

Fuck you. I dare you to switch places with me and then we'll see if you so blithely condemn yourself to a painful death.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well 1st off,the republicans have to stop blaming the President for their mess....


[image]http://gradycarter.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/slowest-spending-in-decades.png[/image]



They should stop that crap...It just means they are insincere and up to no good.



Then, we`ll have a conversation but not at gun-point.



And not until your party stops the Orwellian alt-reality speak. We are not going to entertain phony, specious arguments or let the extortionists redefine the English language or what 2 plus 2 equals.



When your party mans up and acts in good faith, we`ll be willing and happy to discuss anything.



Also,relations with the gop and the President would be better, if your party would quit the birther/impeach/"shuck`n jive/lazy/nazi/communist/Muslim crap...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

But how are we going to solve this problem if, when things are swimming along, no one will even consider addressing it? And when we're in the ninth hour, no one wants to risk stirring the pot?

The problem is being addressed. The deficit has shrunk dramatically in the last 5 years. What money we are borrowing is at interest rates that are often, once you take into account the inflation rate over the life of the bond, negative.

What we need is tax increases on the top earners and a drastic reduction in military and intelligence spending. We should do that slowly to limit the shocks to the economy and do some deficit spending now to do things, like fixing bridges, that help the economy in the long run.

Then we need to address education loan debt which is looking like the next bubble. As a start the feds should make no more student loans to unaccredited for profit "schools."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well 1st off,the republicans have to stop blaming the President for their mess....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
[image]http://gradycarter.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/slowest-spending-in-decades.png[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well 1st off,the republicans have to stop blaming the President for their mess....

For once, Owner... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Don't you think it's time to stop playing the blame game, put the past behind, and look for solutions to the future?