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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 2:15:10 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

They counted every image, external javascript and CSS file. I'm fairly confident under that standard yahoo's count would be into the hundreds. They may have written a bad page design or they may have not optimized the back end code but the number of requests generated by a page is not a big deal.

The Healthcare.gov sign-up page calls 52 Javascript files (one of them containing over 11 thousand lines of code, the majority amounting to snippets that could have been combined). Yahoo's home page calls no external Javascript files at all.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/15/2013 2:19:19 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 21

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 3:58:01 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The number of back end requests to a single data source is, in itself, no big deal.
But thats not whats going on. There are multiple reports that data formatting between the front end and the various backends are incompatible, requiring multiple transformations. Multiple formats, multiple backends, multiple vendors.

By the way.. you had said earlier that you were confident that the kinds would be worked out in a couple of days. Clearly that hasn't happened.

You do know there is a shutdown limiting who can work on fixing the problems right?

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 22

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 4:09:02 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

They counted every image, external javascript and CSS file. I'm fairly confident under that standard yahoo's count would be into the hundreds. They may have written a bad page design or they may have not optimized the back end code but the number of requests generated by a page is not a big deal.

The Healthcare.gov sign-up page calls 52 Javascript files (one of them containing over 11 thousand lines of code, the majority amounting to snippets that could have been combined). Yahoo's home page calls no external Javascript files at all.

K.

Don't know who told you that but a quick search of the yahoo front page turned up

quote:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://l.yimg.com/rz/l/ai.min.js">

quote:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://l.yimg.com/zz/combo?&cv/eng/externals/yfpad/combo/120702/yfpadobject.js&cv/eng/externals/yfpad/combo/120702/yfpad_util.js&cv/eng/externals/yfpad/combo/120702/yfpad_flash.js&cv/eng/externals/yfpad/combo/120702/yfpad_useragent.js">

quote:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://l.yimg.com/zz/combo?nn/lib/metro/g/yui/yui-base_3.8.1.js">

That's 3 separate external javascript files. There is also roughly 1000 lines of javascript on the page itself.

Running javascript and loading text files is not an issue for modern computers and high speed connections.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 23

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 4:39:56 PM

Lucylastic

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http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/328387-obamacare-enrollment-portal-facing-imitations

State insurance regulators are encountering sites designed to mimic ObamaCare's enrollment portal, the online hub where millions of people are meant to purchase healthcare coverage.

Attempts at imitating healthcare.gov have met with cease-and-desist letters; the sites could confuse consumers seeking to enter ObamaCare's marketplaces.

In New Hampshire, the insurance commissioner reportedly cracked down on one webpage last week that could have been mistaken for the state's insurance exchange.
And regulators from Washington, Pennsylvania and Connecticut are warning the health insurance industry against creating sites that might mislead the public.

The healthcare law is expected to prompt fraud attempts similar to those seen in Medicare and other government programs.

It's unclear whether the technical problems plaguing the ObamaCare enrollment portal are increasing the instance of consumer scams.

One classic trick is perpetrated when Medicare beneficiaries receive a call from someone who says they work from the government.

The caller then asks for sensitive personal details — such as bank account and Social Security numbers — in the name of presenting the individual with a new Medicare card.

Regulators fear that ObamaCare will give rise to similar scams and warn consumers not to release their personal information to unverified callers.

Top administration officials met in September to discuss the potential for abuse, though the government shutdown is inhibiting some anti-fraud actions.

"We will be vigilant as always in cracking down on this type of opportunistic fraud," Federal Trade Commission Chairwoman Edith Ramirez told CBS News.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/328387-obamacare-enrollment-portal-facing-imitations#ixzz2hpxVe9vx
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

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(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 24

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 5:12:58 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That's 3 separate external javascript files. There is also roughly 1000 lines of javascript on the page itself.

Running javascript and loading text files is not an issue for modern computers and high speed connections.

You're right, I just checked. In fact, there's more than just those, and every additional external file requires another call to the server. But the totality of Yahoo's main page doesn't load when you access it. Instead, it only loads on demand as you scroll down. And more to the point, at least in the analyses I've read, the problem with healthcare.gov arises from all the queries and data requests that are generated when a user tries to sign-up. Those are the alleged sources of the massive data flows being reported, and that is the traffic that could have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers.

But let's not quibble. I'm sure bigger problems lie ahead.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 25

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 5:24:56 PM

DsBound

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The website is simply poor planning... if they cant get first base right, how are they goung to manage the real stuff. It is idiotic!!

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 26

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 8:47:35 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That's 3 separate external javascript files. There is also roughly 1000 lines of javascript on the page itself.

Running javascript and loading text files is not an issue for modern computers and high speed connections.

You're right, I just checked. In fact, there's more than just those, and every additional external file requires another call to the server. But the totality of Yahoo's main page doesn't load when you access it. Instead, it only loads on demand as you scroll down. And more to the point, at least in the analyses I've read, the problem with healthcare.gov arises from all the queries and data requests that are generated when a user tries to sign-up. Those are the alleged sources of the massive data flows being reported, and that is the traffic that could have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers.

But let's not quibble. I'm sure bigger problems lie ahead.

K.

So where did you get the claim that Yahoo didn't use external javascript?

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 27

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 9:12:07 PM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So where did you get the claim that Yahoo didn't use external javascript?

I eyeballed the header and the first few hundred lines and all I saw was inline script. I missed one offset external reference on line 169. When you mentioned three, I went back and ran a search and found lots more.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/15/2013 9:20:45 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 28

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 2:28:52 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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I have such an issue with the entitled little whiny bitches whose own States were either too lazy and incompetent to own and operate their own healthcare exchanges. On october 1st, I visited the federal portal, and as expected, it redirected me to New York's. Which worked for me.

When all these people who expect MY FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS to cover for their state's incompetence, well, ever hear the phrase, "Beggers Can't Be Choosers"

Go yell at your fucking governor, because we don't give a shit.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/16/2013 2:29:12 AM >

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(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 29

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 2:55:14 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I have such an issue with the entitled little whiny bitches whose own States were either too lazy and incompetent to own and operate their own healthcare exchanges. On october 1st, I visited the federal portal, and as expected, it redirected me to New York's. Which worked for me.

When all these people who expect MY FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS to cover for their state's incompetence, well, ever hear the phrase, "Beggers Can't Be Choosers"

Go yell at your fucking governor, because we don't give a shit.

I'm particularly annoyed that Illinois, which is entirely run by Democrats, couldn't get their shit together enough to setup our exchanges.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 30

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 3:57:24 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

http://getcoveredillinois.gov/ just came up fine.

As we say in the trouble ticketing business. RESOLVED, WORKSFORME

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 31

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 10:18:25 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://getcoveredillinois.gov/ just came up fine.

As we say in the trouble ticketing business. RESOLVED, WORKSFORME

Strangely healthcare.gov is not redirecting anyone to that site like its supposed to.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 32

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 10:40:00 AM

papassion

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Something doesn't sound right about this. Even some of you in here seem to know better ways the websites could have been handled. I would assume they had the best engineers setting this up, who do this for a living and have impeccable resumes.

I'm begining to think that the first group signing up were the few million who could not buy regular insurance because of their poor health or pre existing conditions. Then almost nobody. This would put Obamacare and the democrats in a hell of a spot, failure, especially during negotiations with republicans. With websites "down," they can claim they don't know the numbers.

I mean the government can't do anything right but this is beyond the pale. I'm sure they will also be able to handle all our health records!

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 33

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 10:43:12 AM

mnottertail

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Yeah, we had IBM project managers when we set up verizon. And telefonica Mexico. We had to get them fired to get the shit to work. You would be surprised at the uselessness of some of the project managers and technical directors.

Like I said, they are probably Six Sigma blackbelts, guarenteed failure.

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Post #: 34

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 2:27:47 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Something doesn't sound right about this. Even some of you in here seem to know better ways the websites could have been handled. I would assume they had the best engineers setting this up, who do this for a living and have impeccable resumes.

You would think wrong. Government contracts go to lowest bidder. The federal site has to handle all the states where the states refused to set up their own system, and for some reason does not simply redirect some others. That's 36, IIRC, different states insurance regs to comply with as well as who knows how many insurance companies the system has to send info to and pull quotes from as well as interacting with the IRS system to verify income data for subsidy and Medicaid eligibility data.

That is quite a complicated system and if the project managers or HHS people defining goals were the sort who like overly complicated systems or new technologies the coders didn't know very well, which both occur way too often in projects of all sizes, this could easily have problems.

However it is clearly working and the bugs are getting worked out.

(in reply to papassion)

Post #: 35

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 4:48:08 PM

Phydeaux

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Oh I don't know. What do you suppose enrollments are up to? 75K?

I would *hardly* call that ahem.. working. Since you know its supposed to get 30 million people insurance (without making anyone drop it). Oh thats right.. Kaiser lowered the expectation to 24.

Oh wait.. thats right .. they changed that to 7 million this year - or 1.16 million a month or.. 250 thousand a week. We're 20 days into it - call it 3 weeks. We should have 750,000 enrollments. We have 75K, maybe?

See, we have different concepts of work. In the government 10% score might be considered "work". In the private sector we consider that complete and utter failure.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 36

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 4:54:50 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh I don't know. What do you suppose enrollments are up to? 75K?

I would *hardly* call that ahem.. working. Since you know its supposed to get 30 million people insurance (without making anyone drop it). Oh thats right.. Kaiser lowered the expectation to 24.

Oh wait.. thats right .. they changed that to 7 million this year - or 1.16 million a month or.. 250 thousand a week. We're 20 days into it - call it 3 weeks. We should have 750,000 enrollments. We have 75K, maybe?

See, we have different concepts of work. In the government 10% score might be considered "work". In the private sector we consider that complete and utter failure.

Based on the numbers released signups are over 1 million people. So it looks to be on the curve. Also the reason the numbers got reduced is because Republican dominated states refused to expand Medicaid. Now why not address that fact?

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 37

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 5:30:14 PM

DsBound

Posts: 268
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh I don't know. What do you suppose enrollments are up to? 75K?

I would *hardly* call that ahem.. working. Since you know its supposed to get 30 million people insurance (without making anyone drop it). Oh thats right.. Kaiser lowered the expectation to 24.

Oh wait.. thats right .. they changed that to 7 million this year - or 1.16 million a month or.. 250 thousand a week. We're 20 days into it - call it 3 weeks. We should have 750,000 enrollments. We have 75K, maybe?

See, we have different concepts of work. In the government 10% score might be considered "work". In the private sector we consider that complete and utter failure.

Based on the numbers released signups are over 1 million people. So it looks to be on the curve. Also the reason the numbers got reduced is because Republican dominated states refused to expand Medicaid. Now why not address that fact?

Where are you seeing actual numbers of people who have offically signed up for medical coverage? Ive seen numbers for people who have registered with the site, but not for people who have actually finished the process. Big difference between the two.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 38

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/16/2013 6:48:19 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh I don't know. What do you suppose enrollments are up to? 75K?

I would *hardly* call that ahem.. working. Since you know its supposed to get 30 million people insurance (without making anyone drop it). Oh thats right.. Kaiser lowered the expectation to 24.

Oh wait.. thats right .. they changed that to 7 million this year - or 1.16 million a month or.. 250 thousand a week. We're 20 days into it - call it 3 weeks. We should have 750,000 enrollments. We have 75K, maybe?

See, we have different concepts of work. In the government 10% score might be considered "work". In the private sector we consider that complete and utter failure.

Based on the numbers released signups are over 1 million people. So it looks to be on the curve. Also the reason the numbers got reduced is because Republican dominated states refused to expand Medicaid. Now why not address that fact?

Where are you seeing actual numbers of people who have offically signed up for medical coverage? Ive seen numbers for people who have registered with the site, but not for people who have actually finished the process. Big difference between the two.

Many states have released numbers of actual policies applied for.

(in reply to DsBound)

Post #: 39

RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/17/2013 7:47:08 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh I don't know. What do you suppose enrollments are up to? 75K?

I would *hardly* call that ahem.. working. Since you know its supposed to get 30 million people insurance (without making anyone drop it). Oh thats right.. Kaiser lowered the expectation to 24.

Oh wait.. thats right .. they changed that to 7 million this year - or 1.16 million a month or.. 250 thousand a week. We're 20 days into it - call it 3 weeks. We should have 750,000 enrollments. We have 75K, maybe?

See, we have different concepts of work. In the government 10% score might be considered "work". In the private sector we consider that complete and utter failure.

If your party wasn`t trying to crash our fragile economy....the headlines would be about the difficulty starting up the website.

Though wed prefer that your party not attack our nation`s financial system,the diversion ya`ll provided was helpful....

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(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 40

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