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What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 4:52:19 PM   
DomKen


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http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/328925-senate-bill-aims-to-pay-back-furloughed-workers-asap

OK, Mitch McConnell got a $2 billion construction project in Kentucky.

Also from now on the President can simply ignore the debt limit unless Congress can override a veto.

Now that was totally worth shutting down the government for more than 2 weeks and spiking interest rates, NOT!.
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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 5:10:21 PM   
DsBound


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Status: offline 		This is exactly why I call the combination of the two, the Government Party.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 7:56:53 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nothing
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/328925-senate-bill-aims-to-pay-back-furloughed-workers-asap
OK, Mitch McConnell got a $2 billion construction project in Kentucky.
Also from now on the President can simply ignore the debt limit unless Congress can override a veto.
Now that was totally worth shutting down the government for more than 2 weeks and spiking interest rates, NOT!.


Didn't Congress pass some "no pork" legislation?

WTF?!?!?

To be honest, I'm surprised the GOP stood up as long as they did.


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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 8:08:31 PM   
joether


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Status: offline 		That's right, two weeks of lunatic and babble by the Republican/Tea Party and they STILL get nothing in the end. All their tactics, games, propaganda, and lies, got them not even a decent second place prize. If anything the mid term elections should see quite a number of new faces in the Republican side of the House. Heck, might even have a few seats turn from Republican to Democrat. As people will remind others in a year's time, just before all those elections WHO nearly drove this nation into an economic depression. All to remove a law they didn't like.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 8:11:32 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nothing
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/328925-senate-bill-aims-to-pay-back-furloughed-workers-asap
OK, Mitch McConnell got a $2 billion construction project in Kentucky.
Also from now on the President can simply ignore the debt limit unless Congress can override a veto.
Now that was totally worth shutting down the government for more than 2 weeks and spiking interest rates, NOT!.


Didn't Congress pass some "no pork" legislation?

WTF?!?!?

To be honest, I'm surprised the GOP stood up as long as they did.


I still don't understand why the Republicans did this in the first place. They could not hope to win.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 8:43:21 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

I still don't understand why the Republicans did this in the first place


Two things:

First some wanted to get reelected and one wanted to keep his power seat. By appeasing their Tea Party radical constituents they will get back in the house. It does no good to ignore the fact that a good portion of Americans were demanding the actions of their Republican representatives.


Second the Republicans are just continuing their obstructionist strategy in hope that America will blame Obama and decide to elect a Republican President in the future and take the Senate in the coming election.

Butch

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 8:51:20 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nothing

Well, I wouldn't be opening the champagne just yet. I think that remains to be seen. Even the Chicago Tribune, which is no right-wing rag, has published an editorial that virtually backs a dump-truck up to the President's signature health care legislation. We've already seen stories of companies reducing their workforce and cutting hours, and complaints about premiums skyrocketing for many people beyond their ability to afford them. In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/16/2013 8:52:13 PM >

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 9:04:38 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nothing

Well, I wouldn't be opening the champagne just yet. I think that remains to be seen. Even the Chicago Tribune, which is no right-wing rag, has published an editorial that virtually backs a dump-truck up to the President's signature health care legislation. We've already seen stories of companies reducing their workforce and cutting hours, and complaints about premiums skyrocketing for many people beyond their ability to afford them. In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.

K.


NOTHING. 2 week shutdown, higher interest rates and they got NOTHING. They did manage to cost the US economy some $20+ billion in lost economic activity though.

And yes the Chicago Tribune editorial page is right wing. They are not foaming at the mouth hypocritical morons like FNC and the moonies but they are certainly right wing.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 9:25:49 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I still don't understand why the Republicans did this in the first place. They could not hope to win.


The "Republicans" as a group didn't do it. Only a few of them did.

There were several reasons.

1. They served notice on the moderates that they want to drive.
2. They may have misjudged the polls. They did that in November as well.
3. Cruz may have been banking on the GOP folding, and him being able to castigate the moderates for now standing up enough.
4. They don't care about national opinion as much as the opinion in their solid-red districts.
5. Obama has folded in the past, and they may have expected him to do so again.


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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 9:28:54 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nothing

Well, I wouldn't be opening the champagne just yet. I think that remains to be seen. Even the Chicago Tribune, which is no right-wing rag, has published an editorial that virtually backs a dump-truck up to the President's signature health care legislation. We've already seen stories of companies reducing their workforce and cutting hours, and complaints about premiums skyrocketing for many people beyond their ability to afford them. In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.

K.




What part of "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned" do you not understand?

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 10:38:55 PM   
cloudboy


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I'm more interested in what the Republicans learned. Will they veer away from anti-establishment, minority positions, or will they keep trying to double down on positions like:

(1) Immigration Reform -- oppose it at all costs

(2) Deficit Reduction --- without reductions in military spending

(3) Health Care Reform --- try to improve the system so that more people are covered and costs are reduced v. continuing to oppose the ACA without offering a single alternative solution

(4) Try to help balance the budget though tax increases v. keep insisting that tax cuts are "off the table."

(5) If you are an elected official, then you try and make the government deliver good services efficiently -- versus trying to neuter the EPA and other regulatory agencies from doing their job

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/16/2013 10:46:04 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.


You are living in a total fantasy land here. The ACA is not an "unmitigated disaster," it is a step to to expand health care coverage for Americans while seeking to cut health care costs. It is also a step to mandate that all Americans contribute to the payment of healthcare in the nation as opposed to the insured Americans eating all the costs associated with treating the uninsured.

The US needs to invest in the health and the education of Americans. This will help businesses and it will help workers. You eye ball this as a "disaster" while the current state of the economy has seen a huge disinvestment in the American middle class -- gutting the demand pull that propels our economy forward.

It's no coincidence that numerous governors -- not just Democrats like me but also Republicans like Jan Brewer of Arizona, John Kasich of Ohio and Rick Snyder of Michigan -- see the Affordable Care Act not as a referendum on President Obama but as a tool for historic change.

Footnote: If the ACA was really such a disaster, the Republicans would never have shut the government down to oppose it, they would have simply let if fail after its implementation.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/16/2013 10:49:06 PM >

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 12:33:09 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.


You are living in a total fantasy land here. The ACA is not an "unmitigated disaster," it is a step to to expand health care coverage for Americans while seeking to cut health care costs. It is also a step to mandate that all Americans contribute to the payment of healthcare in the nation as opposed to the insured Americans eating all the costs associated with treating the uninsured.

The US needs to invest in the health and the education of Americans. This will help businesses and it will help workers. You eye ball this as a "disaster" while the current state of the economy has seen a huge disinvestment in the American middle class -- gutting the demand pull that propels our economy forward.

It's no coincidence that numerous governors -- not just Democrats like me but also Republicans like Jan Brewer of Arizona, John Kasich of Ohio and Rick Snyder of Michigan -- see the Affordable Care Act not as a referendum on President Obama but as a tool for historic change.

Footnote: If the ACA was really such a disaster, the Republicans would never have shut the government down to oppose it, they would have simply let if fail after its implementation.


Current enrollment of Obama care is what? Estimated was .. 24 million?
Yeah.. its such a good deal - you know a two year fight to yield MORE people without insurance after committing to spend a few trillion.

Maybe we should start counting "insurance saved or created like Obama did with jobs" Forgetting the millions of people that are losing it because of Ocare.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 12:49:01 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I'm more interested in what the Republicans learned. Will they veer away from anti-establishment, minority positions, or will they keep trying to double down on positions like:

(1) Immigration Reform -- oppose it at all costs

(2) Deficit Reduction --- without reductions in military spending

(3) Health Care Reform --- try to improve the system so that more people are covered and costs are reduced v. continuing to oppose the ACA without offering a single alternative solution

(4) Try to help balance the budget though tax increases v. keep insisting that tax cuts are "off the table."

(5) If you are an elected official, then you try and make the government deliver good services efficiently -- versus trying to neuter the EPA and other regulatory agencies from doing their job

There are good reasons to be pessimistic I'm sorry to say.

In the internal GOP autopsy that must inevitably ensue, both wings will blame the other for the collapse of their strategy, such as it was. The teabaggers will blame the 'moderates' for compromising, while the moderates will turn on the teabaggers for initiating the whole sorry episode. Neither side appears to me to have a choice here.

The moderates will have to show some intestinal fortitude and stand up to the teabaggers, a fight they have shown no stomach for to date. The teabaggers have nowhere else to go, so they will fight to the death. So it all depends on which side emerges victorious.

Whether the corpse of GOP will be worth the fight is another question. It may eventuate that the GOP will split. If things continue as they stand, the only outcome will be political oblivion for the GOP.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/17/2013 12:50:20 AM >

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 1:24:23 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I'm more interested in what the Republicans learned. Will they veer away from anti-establishment, minority positions, or will they keep trying to double down on positions like:

(1) Immigration Reform -- oppose it at all costs

(2) Deficit Reduction --- without reductions in military spending

(3) Health Care Reform --- try to improve the system so that more people are covered and costs are reduced v. continuing to oppose the ACA without offering a single alternative solution

(4) Try to help balance the budget though tax increases v. keep insisting that tax cuts are "off the table."

(5) If you are an elected official, then you try and make the government deliver good services efficiently -- versus trying to neuter the EPA and other regulatory agencies from doing their job


Sorry to say this, cloudboy, but your ideas for #3 through #5 are based upon a GOP that is willing to compromise and work pragmatically toward a solution that is less than they want. The current GOP is driven by ideology, not pragmatism, and it would rather fight a losing battle endlessly than be reduced to getting concessions in a bill they don't like. Their tactics are entirely confrontational and adverse, not cooperative.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Footnote: If the ACA was really such a disaster, the Republicans would never have shut the government down to oppose it, they would have simply let if fail after its implementation.


Nope. That's exactly what Pelosi did - she made damn sure that the Dems' opposition to Bush's policies were firmly registered, and let them all fail. Then the Dems ran as the party of we're-not-Bush and clobbered the GOP in 2008. That's a smart, pragmatic approach, which is anathema to the GOP of today.

The GOP got used to doing what they damn well pleased during the Bush years, and ignoring the Dems. They've tried to continue that even though they're not in control. Obama did his best to work with the GOP at first, and now he's given up and has begun to ram stuff down the GOP's throats.

The sad thing is that it doesn't matter of the ACA is a monumental failure or a smashing success, or something in between. The GOP has defined their strategy:

1. Oppose it by spreading lies about death panels, etc.
2. Fight it tooth and nail and refuse to compromise or influence it.
3. Once it's implemented, claim it to be a failure, whether or not it is.

Reality doesn't matter.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 1:39:39 AM   
eulero83


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looking it from the outside (I mean the political discussion not the possibility of another world crisis that was from inside) the GOP tried to split the bill in smaller pieces so that they could isolate obamacare and defound it (probably with everything they didn't like, too) at least till next elections, they've not been fast enught in passing the small bills and so lost the arm wrestling match.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 2:31:57 AM   
PyrotheClown


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Status: offline 		oh,they got some'n all right
they got alota empty seats a come'n this November

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 3:31:14 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		When Rush Limpballls calls the Republican Party "Irrelevant" you know they got NOTHING from all the posturing but more division.

Watching the suicide of the opposition in a 2 party system is scary even to someone who is a self proclaimed liberal like me. When on

the National level one half of the 2 party system is as ineffective, divided, and driven by a minority group as far off the mark as the Tea Party

contingent, it does not bode well for the people who make up the rest of the population. I remember well vacillating between Democrats and Republicans

when I would vote, but the Tea Party people make it too easy. They stand some where so far right, anti-social program, anti-growth, anti-anything but white,

close the borders, eliminate the social safety net, cut taxes on the rich, spend more money on defense, that choosing is no longer a question. The Cruz, Palin contingent

are going to insure either a third party with the demise of the Republican Party, or that the Republican's will never have a Presidential Candidate that will be able to win. No

opportunity for a Chris Christie, no more senators like Richard Lugar or Arlen Specter and Orin Hatch will look like a Leftist in comparison. Those who choose to blame Obama

for this division are simply blinded by their own fear of the future, and if you are standing on the right side of the aisle, the future isn't looking very bright.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:05:20 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		We'll see over the next few months but if voters remember this and vote accordingly this could bring the GOP back from the brink, some of these ultra safe tea party Congressmen need to be primaried from the center. If not the Republican Party will die a slow death as demographics renders it irrelevant until a new center right party emerges and the extremists are left behind.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:35:47 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		EVERYONE learned that John Bohner got collared by Nancy Pelosi. He's going to do whatever he's told, like a Good Boy... The GOP let themselves get hijacked by the Teabaggers, they found out that The President doesn't negotiate with hijackers, and to prove it, the GOP got nothing AND just to rub your face in it here's some money for Kentucky...

gop == bitches. Obama's immigration reform is going to sail through without anything but the most token of opposition. And will ACA-2.0 be single payer for all?



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