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Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 2:04:24 PM   
Yachtie


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A finding in a study on the relationship between science literacy and political ideology surprised the Yale professor behind it: Tea party members know more science than non-tea partiers.

Yale law professor Dan Kahan posted on his blog this week that he analyzed the responses of more than 2,000 American adults recruited for another study and found that, on average, people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned conservative.

However, those who identified as part of the tea party movement were actually better versed in science than those who didn’t, Kahan found.

Kahan wrote that not only did the findings surprise him, they embarrassed him.


“But then again, I don’t know a single person who identifies with the tea party,” he continued. “All my impressions come from watching cable tv — & I don’t watch Fox News very often — and reading the ‘paper’ (New York Times daily, plus a variety of politics-focused Internet sites like Huffington Post and POLITICO). I’m a little embarrassed, but mainly, I’m just glad that I no longer hold this particular mistaken view.”


Herr Professor has a few other mistaken views I'd bet. My first thought is his liberalism.




< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/17/2013 2:05:36 PM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 2:54:17 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		My first thought would be that 2000 (not randomly selected) people would incite a law professor to consider that he knew shit about science and statistics and could judge that credibly and all without peer review would be pretty far from fucking credible or science myself.

Or did you get something different out of that asswipe.


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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:01:47 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

My first thought would be that 2000 (not randomly selected) people would incite a law professor to consider that he knew shit about science and statistics and could judge that credibly and all without peer review would be pretty far from fucking credible or science myself.

Or did you get something different out of that asswipe.


If it was a representative sample then only around 15% of respondents would claim to be tea party. 300 people is a smallish sample but if the variance was large enough then he'd have some justification. I'd like to see a larger sample before drawing the conclusion he did.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:04:12 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

My first thought would be that 2000 (not randomly selected) people...

The respondents consisted of a large, nationally representative sample of U.S. adults

K.


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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:23:11 PM   
Phydeaux


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Status: offline 		Whereas, I find the results as expected, for a variety of reasons.

Look, you get a lot of no-nothing people that identify with democrats. Food stamps, illegal immigrants, yada yada. Contrasting that you also get a large number of faculty, post doctorals etc.

Mainstream republican base much the same (minus the faculty) - southern states, often poor. Country clubs. Old money.

Tea Party people (contrary to popular misperceptions) are issue voters. And the issue is taxes.
The demographic that gets taxed enough for this to be an issue for them are going to be middle class people with incomes from call it 75 to 250K.

These people are *of course* going to overrepresented in the science areas compared to other demographics. Their demographic is narrower.
Sure, tea party gets yahoos. Just not enough to overwhelm the core.

And most tea party events / or people that I have had the pleasure of attending or nowhere near the caricature presented here or on msnbc. Amateurs, - for sure.

The biggest surprise for me - was the number of soccer moms. More than half, in the smaller organizations.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 10/17/2013 3:24:21 PM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:26:42 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Yale law professor Dan Kahan posted on his blog this week that he analyzed the responses of more than 2,000 American adults recruited for another study and found that, on average, people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned conservative.


he respondents consisted of a large, nationally representative sample of U.S. adults


Yeah, which is it, 2000 or a large nationally representative sample.


In my paper, Ideology, Motivated Reasoning, and Cognitive Reflection, I found that the Cogntive Reflection Test did not meaningfully correlate with left-right political outlooks.

In this dataset, I found that there is a small correlation (r = -0.05, p = 0.03) between the science comprehension measure and a left-right political outlook measure, Conservrepub, which aggregates liberal-conservative ideology and party self-identification. The sign of the correlation indicates that science comprehension decreases as political outlooks move in the rightward direction--i.e., the more "liberal" and "Democrat," the more science comprehending.


But if you do, then maybe you'll find this interesting. The dataset happened to have an item in it that asked respondents if they considered themselves "part of the Tea Party movement." Nineteen percent said yes.

It turns out that there is about as strong a correlation between scores on the science comprehension scale and identifying with the Tea Party as there is between scores on the science comprehension scale and Conservrepub.

Except that it has the opposite sign: that is, identifying with the Tea Party correlates positively (r = 0.05, p = 0.05) with scores on the science comprehension measure:

Next time I collect data, too, I won't be surprised at all if the correlations between science comprehension and political ideology or identification with the Tea Party movement disappear or flip their signs. These effects are trivially small, & if I sample 2000+ people it's pretty likely any discrepancy I see will be "statistically significant"--which has precious little to do with "practically significant."



So, lets be clear what it does say and it dont say much, and not the nutsacker lies in the OP.

It says that left-leaners are more science aware, and that some identify as part of the tea party movement, not the nutsackers, not the teabaggers and not the 'conservatives' again, there is not one tea party member in congress, they are only and to a man and woman teabaggers.

So it says teabaggers are fucking imbeciles. That is all that is said.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:33:29 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		It would be nice to be able to see all the information. For instance the economic standing of the individuals and locations. For all we know he collected Tea Party data from affluent areas and liberal from inner city economically challenged populations. This could mean the education and economic standing had more to do with the results than political affiliations.

Butch



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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:47:53 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, which is it, 2000 or a large nationally representative sample.

Well first of all, people who can read know that the story said "more than 2000". And secondly, people who can click on links (like the one that says "respondents" in the post you're replying to) can be expected to know that the size of the dataset was 2,316.

Assuming they've mastered the arcane science of arithmetic addition, of course.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/17/2013 4:18:41 PM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:52:22 PM   
PeonForHer


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It's not counterintuitive to me. I noticed some while ago that there was a certain sort who seemed to apply his reasoning abilities to science, but to not much else. Philosophising, politics . . . value-laden waffle, drivel, waste of time. Only hard-and-fast thinking, with 'clear answers', mattered. They tended to see more of these than most and, where they didn't see them, they weren't interested and in those matters that were consigned to that category (anything fuzzy, anything to do with feelings, etc) utterly went with their 'common sense', 'real world knowledge' and 'intuitions' (or 'prejudices', as the rest of us would call them). Yep, I know the ultra-right-wing scientist type, all right. Josef Mengele was a stellar example.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 3:58:26 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Josef Mengele was a stellar example.

DING DING DING ... WE HAVE A WINNER!!

(I thought it would take longer than that.)

K.


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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:02:05 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Thank you. I might be a woolly-minded lefty liberal, but I'm aware of smatterings of science, including that of Godwin's Law.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:08:50 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Well...he was a Christian and conservative after all so the Tea Party and he have something's in common.

Butch

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:13:40 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Yep. I'd imagine that Tea-Partiers would love Mengele. After all, Mengele and his fellow Nazis did a magnificent job of combating anti-American values in pre-WW2 Germany.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:22:27 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well...he was a Christian and conservative after all so the Tea Party and he have something's in common.

Butch


But at least we can actually read - for example Posner's book on Mengele where it is listed that Mengele rejected Catholicism in favor of the state approved Nazi religion. Which, for the record, had some *very* peculiar beliefs.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:30:37 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

science comprehension decreases as political outlooks move in the rightward direction--i.e., the more "liberal" and "Democrat," the more science comprehending.




YELL LOUDER !! I CAN"T HEAR YOU !!!

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/17/2013 4:32:09 PM >

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:43:22 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well...he was a Christian and conservative after all so the Tea Party and he have something's in common.

Butch


But at least we can actually read - for example Posner's book on Mengele where it is listed that Mengele rejected Catholicism in favor of the state approved Nazi religion. Which, for the record, had some *very* peculiar beliefs.



Phydeaux, if you don't mind my asking, what inspired you to read a book about Mengele? Myself, I've always thought that Mengele was just another Nazi fruitcake and not worth bothering with. What impressed you so much about him that you felt the desire to read a book about him?

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 4:47:40 PM   
deathtothepixies


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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 5:29:20 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well...he was a Christian and conservative after all so the Tea Party and he have something's in common.

Butch


But at least we can actually read - for example Posner's book on Mengele where it is listed that Mengele rejected Catholicism in favor of the state approved Nazi religion. Which, for the record, had some *very* peculiar beliefs.



Phydeaux, if you don't mind my asking, what inspired you to read a book about Mengele? Myself, I've always thought that Mengele was just another Nazi fruitcake and not worth bothering with. What impressed you so much about him that you felt the desire to read a book about him?


You're serious, aren't you?

How would you define people who only read about stuff they liked? Who refused to be educated on anything outside their realm of comfort? Who decided what was worthy of being learned based on preconceived notions?

Narrow-minded seems to fit.

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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 5:53:26 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Phydeaux, if you don't mind my asking, what inspired you to read a book about Mengele? Myself, I've always thought that Mengele was just another Nazi fruitcake and not worth bothering with. What impressed you so much about him that you felt the desire to read a book about him?

You're serious, aren't you?

How would you define people who only read about stuff they liked? Who refused to be educated on anything outside their realm of comfort? Who decided what was worthy of being learned based on preconceived notions?

Narrow-minded seems to fit.

Anything in a pinch.

K.


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RE: Tea Party and Science - 10/17/2013 5:56:21 PM   
RedMagic1


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Saw this topic in the scroller.

People who are active science researchers tend to be less God-believing than people who are "just" science-educated. This is more pronounced with more successful researchers. Famously, the National Academy of Sciences is over 90% atheist.

This doesn't have much effect on liberal/conservative when it comes to fiscal conservatism or liberalism. But there's a big difference when it comes to Evangelical social positions (what the media often call "conservative" positions, though I don't think that word is technically correct). For example, the Dominionist Christianity of Sen. Ted Cruz's father attracts almost no practicing scientists, and a fair amount of anti-science, anti-intellectual people. But the Tea Party is made up of more than Dominionists and Values Voters.

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